George Dixon Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 Just now, henry7184 said: I wasn't too impressed with what I saw from Cavies tonight (although we didn't see the whole thing). I've seen several videos of Crown and they are incredible. Just incredible. Maybe it will be less. Cadets just are really dirty. Musically they are probably better but the feet are a mess which impacts the playing and confidence so much Cadets have Friday Sunday Monday off to clean clean clean. They really need that time to get the show comfortable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry7184 Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 (edited) 12 minutes ago, George Dixon said: Maybe it will be less. Cadets just are really dirty. Musically they are probably better but the feet are a mess which impacts the playing and confidence so much Cadets have Friday Sunday Monday off to clean clean clean. They really need that time to get the show comfortable Honestly, it's so much more in today's world than just being clean. Design goes a long long long way. I am honestly completely baffled that anyone could look at the Cadets show this year and think it is better than last year or a well designed show. It isn't. I've been in this activity a long time. I assume you have too. We've seen many examples of very well designed shows and shows that are not well designed. Look at Bluecoats last year and Cadets this year and tell me the Cadets show is well designed. I have to conclude that people cannot get past their bias. I know I was hugely biased against Regiment in the 80s and 90s and couldn't understand their competitive success - now I look back and think what an idiot I was. During that time, I was very pro-Madison and pro-SCV in my bias and couldn't agree anytime Regiment beat either of them. Again, I was a fool. Back in the 80s and 90s, when it was perhaps more about execution, the Cadets were able to achieve such a high level of execution, but they took it so much further with their brilliant designs. Becoming almost unbeatable at finals. I knew when Spirit beat Cadets in June '87 that there was no way in hell they were going to beat them in August. The '87 show was so brilliant in it's design, just beautiful, exciting and very entertaining. Spirit's design couldn't compete with it, but they were executing better in June. Today, that Spirit corps would have been several points behind the Cadets in June despite out-executing them based on design. Edited June 21, 2017 by henry7184 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Dixon Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 Just now, henry7184 said: August Just now, henry7184 said: Honestly, it's so much more in today's world than just being clean. Design goes a long long long way. I am honestly completely baffled that anyone could look at the Cadets show this year and think it is better than last year or a well designed show. It isn't. I've been in this activity a long time. I assume you have too. We've seen many examples of very well designed shows and shows that are not well designed. I have to conclude that people cannot get past their bias. I know I was hugely biased against Regiment in the 80s and 90s and couldn't understand their competitive success - now I look back and think what an idiot I was. During that time, I was very pro-Madison and pro-SCV in my bias and couldn't agree anytime Regiment beat either of them. Again, I was a fool. Back in the 80s and 90s, when it was perhaps more about execution, the Cadets were able to achieve such a high level of execution, but they took it so much further with their brilliant designs. I knew when Spirit beat Cadets in June '87 that there was no way in hell they were going to beat them in August. The '87 show was so brilliant in it's design, just beautiful, exciting and very entertaining. Spirit's design couldn't compete with it, but they were executing better in June. Today, that Spirit corps would have been several points behind the Cadets in June despite out-executing them. we will know soon enough! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry7184 Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 (edited) 3 minutes ago, George Dixon said: we will know soon enough! We will. Our conversation reminds me of conversations I had with people about Madison in the early - 2000s. I just didn't see what other people saw. I didn't see this massive slip in design and execution. I was so upset when Crown beat them at finals in 2001. Now, when I re-watch that year, I can't believe Madison beat Crown in semifinals. It's hard to get past our bias. I still haven't completely gotten past my bias. My anti-Regiment turned really pro-Regiment starting in 2006. It's been hard watching Madison and Regiment slip, Vanguard before that, and now I am seeing it with Cadets. Those four, along with Crown, are my favorite corps today. I would love it if they were our top 5. Edited June 21, 2017 by henry7184 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Dixon Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 4 minutes ago, henry7184 said: We will. Our conversation reminds me of conversations I had with people about Madison in the early - 2000s. I just didn't see what other people saw. I didn't see this massive slip in design and execution. I was so upset when Crown beat them at finals in 2001. Now, when I re-watch that year, I can't believe Madison beat Crown in semifinals. It's hard to get past our bias. I still haven't completely gotten past my bias. My anti-Regiment turned really pro-Regiment starting in 2006. It's been hard watching Madison and Regiment slip, Vanguard before that, and now I am seeing it with Cadets. Those four, along with Crown, are my favorite corps today. I would love it if they were our top 5. I am not using maroon colored glasses. Just to be clear. I'm saying they will be in fourth Thursday 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cappybara Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 I'm baffled by what people are seeing in crown's design that's so amazing 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry7184 Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Cappybara said: I'm baffled by what people are seeing in crown's design that's so amazing It actually reminds me of the great Cadets and Star drills of the past - readable drill at whiplash speeds. Not demand for the shake of demand. Great music. Great hornline. Great color guard. Really well integrated color guard. They have a fantastic show this year. Could be 1st, could be 4th, or some where in between. Top four will likely be BD, SCV, Crown and Bluecoats. Edited June 21, 2017 by henry7184 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cappybara Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 Just now, henry7184 said: It actually reminds me of the great Cadets and Star drills of the past - readable drill at whiplash speeds. Not demand for the shake of demand. Great music. Great hornline. Great color guard. Really well integrated color guard. They have a fantastic show this year. Could be 1st, could be 4th, or some where in between. Top four will be BD, SCV, Crown and Bluecoats. End of. Demand for the sake of demand is exactly how I'd describe some recent Crown shows (this one included in some sections), but to each their own. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry7184 Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 Just now, Cappybara said: Demand for the sake of demand is exactly how I'd describe some recent Crown shows (this one included in some sections), but to each their own. Madison 2006 was demand for the shake of demand. Crown's high speed drill works because it's well design and echoes the tempo of the music. Design, maybe apart from 2014, has not been an issue for Crown since 2002. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cappybara Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 Just now, henry7184 said: Madison 2006 was demand for the shake of demand. Crown's high speed drill works because it's well design and echoes the tempo of the music. Design, maybe apart from 2014, has not been an issue for Crown since 2002. I respect your opinion, but completely disagree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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