Different winners without GE

[BoaDci]

36 minutes ago, afd said:

Really. I would think most corps would love to be in a position of 6 golds and 4 silvers. And yes they didn't win GE when taking the silver. The 6 golds....GE winner except in 2015 (2nd in GE) plus a score of 40 in 2014. Who else is even close in winning GE in the past 10 years?

You know, if you read my post again you would see I was referring  to SOME years.  2016, 2013, 2011, BD would have won if GE didnt exist, which supports my point.  Im not talking about years they won, that isnt what the thread is about, so I dont know why you felt it was necessary to bring up 2014.  Im not saying BD is weak in GE either Im just saying they have been some years.  So please- seek to understand my post before you critique it.

[afd]

9 minutes ago, BoaDci said:

You know, if you read my post again you would see I was referring  to SOME years.  2016, 2013, 2011, BD would have won if GE didnt exist, which supports my point.  Im not talking about years they won, that isnt what the thread is about, so I dont know why you felt it was necessary to bring up 2014.  Im not saying BD is weak in GE either Im just saying they have been some years.  So please- seek to understand my post before you critique it.

This is a great idea.  BD almost always gets killed in ge

This was your first posting. BD does not get killed in GE. How else are other suppose to see this?

[BoaDci]

Just now, afd said:

This is a great idea.  BD almost always gets killed in ge

This was your first posting. BD does not get killed in GE. How else are other suppose to see this?

Then there was the part where I rephrased better in a second post to better explain my opinion, but sure ignore that to better prove your point.

[xandandl]

2 hours ago, BRASSO said:

  In the pre DCI years, while the AL and VFW had somewhat different judging systems ( had more in common, than differences, actually ), they both defined " General Effect " quite differently than how DCI would define it right from the beginning. In the pre DCI years, how a show connected to the audience was critically important to the GE score. To this degree then, the GE caption was always a build up caption.  Yes, audiences could be skewed to who attended the shows, but this was not much of an issue, as the local circuit shows had equal numbers of Corps fans in most shows, and the National Championships were generally held in cities where more than half the audience were Vets and families... with no biases toward any particular Corps to any large degree. They were in attendance principally to honor Veterans, and support their causes, and take in the Championships as an enjoyable musical competition watching diversion. When the Corps broke away from the AL and VFW and formed DCI in 1972, the General effect caption was solely written by DCI Judge George Oliviero ( about 30 years old at the time ). George wrote the General Effect caption that specifically said that how the show effected HIM or his fellow GE judges would be the sole determinative as to the shows quality of its overall " General Effect ". George said he could not determine a shows effect on others, nor was he sure a show's GE should even be gauged on the audience response. So GE was changed as a definition by DCI itself for the 1st time in Drum Corps competition.  George's written GE caption was submitted to DCI as a proposal, ( 1973? ) and was adopted unanimously by the Corps. Over the years, the GE caption has been split into subcaptions, and there is some small accommodation made to " audiences ", but its mostly token in nature., Bottom line... audiences and their response to shows  have little to no effect on the GE scores. ( nor any other captions for that matter )

yup, George O was just turning 29 when these discussions took place; your history is very well stated and accurate as I relive my memories of being at those early presentations 45 years ago.  

Back then there were no grandfatherly CEO's cementing their livelihoods like Congressional incumbents. His age showed the challenges and risk of the new experiment known as DCI.

Who are our young leaders today? Definitely not in the judging community?  Perhaps in percussion or guard, but usually designers/judges/caption heads today are counting their grey hairs and seasons toward pensions.

[ibexpercussion]

1 hour ago, BoaDci said:

Yeah, not necessarily KILLED in GE, but it has definitely been their achilles heel some years.

I think about 30-38 other groups would love for GE to be their achilles heel, and just miss out on winning because they fell just a bit short in GE, but scored well in the other captions and sub-captions.

[CaDevil]

2 hours ago, BoaDci said:

This is a great idea.  BD almost always gets killed in ge.

I'd hate to be that bad in general effect and only win that many titles.

[cowtown]

In recent years (2008-now) the only way to beat BD is to have a show with monster GE while being strong in all captions because BD will beat you over the captions. Usually, monster GE is some sort of gimmick; kill the DM, Devils and Angels, vocals/electronics/brass integration and ramps. BD wins when no other corps do something new, really well.

So it’s not that BD gets killed in GE its that a corps needs to beat BD in GE to win

[aLittleBird]

5 minutes ago, cowtown said:

In recent years (2008-now) the only way to beat BD is to have a show with monster GE while being strong in all captions because BD will beat you over the captions. Usually, monster GE is some sort of gimmick; kill the DM, Devils and Angels, vocals/electronics/brass integration and ramps. BD wins when no other corps do something new, really well.

 

So it’s not that BD gets killed in GE its that a corps needs to beat BD in GE to win

 

I'm not sure if "gimmick" is the right word. Spartacus and Angels & Demons are immortalized in DVD trays in high schools around the country. They've definitely aged well.

[BRASSO]

1 hour ago, N.E. Brigand said:

Your comments are puzzling in light of the claim in the original post that Blue Devils, whose shows are generally understood to be less audience-friendly than those of other corps, have lost six championships because they didn't score high enough in G.E.

  GE Judges were not impressed by the totality of the show... compared to others in the competition. 'Don't see it as all that confusing. GE does get a bit more confusing however, once GE became subdivided into 2 components several years back. But that's for a whole ' nutha thread to try and tackle, as its a " mutha " ( haha!)

Edited February 28, 2017 by BRASSO

[ouooga]

Agreed on gimmick, though I think it has a different connotation in drum corps compared to the rest of the world. Judges write out the scores. When they judge GE, to some degree they're judging fan interaction. Those "gimmick" moments are designed to increase audience reaction, and they're usually in the final two minutes. The audience goes nuts for them until the end. And when the judge goes to write their score, that leaves an impression.

 

Interestingly, that last two minutes moment is hardly ever in a Blue Devils show. They usually focus on a softer, more emotional ending. In fact, 04 is the last time I can think of them doing it (you could make a case for 05 and 06 too, but neither felt like it resonated).