mfrontz Posted June 28, 2017 Author Share Posted June 28, 2017 (edited) 10 minutes ago, BRASSO said: Oh I agree that lots of fans could care less about the scores.. especially I would assume with incomplete panels doing incomplete evaluations.. This is borne out at just about every local show each summer, where lots of people are seen heading to the exits and their cars right after the last corps performs. Especially at mid week local shows, as many have to get up for work the next morning, and some have long drives home. They are there to be entertained. So you and I are in complete agreement on this. I don't think we are. I think that a lot of fans think that scores are part-and-parcel of the experience and would not be as entertained by the experience were there no scores. I don't stay for the scores any more because I know I can get them on my phone as I'm leaving the parking lot. I would go to an exhibition only, but I think that some fans wouldn't, or wouldn't enjoy it as much and be less likely to return. That's even if they disagree with the scoring - emotional response to scores can be just as entertaining as agreeing with who won. But while we are not in complete agreement, I understand your POV. Is there at least a passing interest in who 'won' the show? If so, it's worth having a five-judge panel and competing. Edited June 28, 2017 by mfrontz grammar 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mingusmonk Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 (edited) With recaps being public again I especially have zero problems with partial panels. I still find the numbers useful. But I'm weird that way. Seasoned followers can still glean useful information and can also make some inferences about the missing numbers. Edited June 29, 2017 by mingusmonk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfrontz Posted June 28, 2017 Author Share Posted June 28, 2017 I wrote a review and put it in the Show Review section. I'm posting about it here because I want people to read it and nobody goes to that section any more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 4 minutes ago, littlejaw said: I definitely agree, these shows are where the members are getting comfortable performing their show. And instead of being critiqued on a performer by performer basis the whole is getting analyzed. You get the benefit of a brass guard or percussion judge every now and then, but this part of the season is to see whether the show is effective and to determine which parts need to be adjusted. I don't disagree with this either. If there is a percussion judge on the panel, the percussionists get his full attention, feedback, and it becomes quite valuable to the staffers of that Corps, and its percussionists. Same with other sections of the Corps. If there is a specific judge giving specific feedback to that specific section of Corps the same pertains. But the inherent incompleteness of the incomplete panels makes the overall score, spreads essentially worthless, thats all I'm saying... and as for fans, many are there just to be entertained anyway, so for them the incomplete panels are a non issue to their enjoyment levels derived or not derived at that show. Thats all I'm saying really. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 4 minutes ago, mfrontz said: Is there at least a passing interest in who 'won' the show? If so, it's worth having a five-judge panel and competing. I recognize and fully accept that some people.. ok lots of people.. accept the full values of incomplete evaluations that incomplete panels provide. I am cool with that too. I just expressed my own opinion that for me, such scores and spreads are essentially meaningless.. yes, with even the " who won and by how much they won " and all the way down to all the other Corps with incomplete evaluations at such shows. Its just how I view incomplete evaluations providing such scores and spreads, and how I personally evaluate such scores and spreads from these incomplete show competition evaluations, thats all. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfirwin3 Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 13 hours ago, mfrontz said: The baritone soloist NAILED IT Did they stick with the lowered octave, or did they try a marching horn? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Dixon Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 34 minutes ago, BRASSO said: Agree. It doesn't matter who is on the incomplete panels. Corps should just do exhibitions, rather than have incomplete judging panels to judge these Corps in competition. Otherwise, intelligent fans conclude that the scores and the spreads with such incomplete evaluations are essentially worthless. Oh boy. I bet if Crusaders had been at the show and beaten Cadets you wouldn't call the scores worthless the corps are still getting valuable feedback on a general sense and specific feedback on the judged captions on a given night the gaps/scores should be dismissed as possibly skewed, that goes for partial panels, comparing scores between different contests on the same night etc However it is valuable and it seems like as "worthless or not" they managed to somehow put the corps in the correct order? finally, it's a contest, even the informal audience member enjoys seeing if their "favorite" won or not. I've seen folks who have zero idea what they are talking about get very excited about the scoring lol 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfrontz Posted June 28, 2017 Author Share Posted June 28, 2017 6 minutes ago, cfirwin3 said: Did they stick with the lowered octave, or did they try a marching horn? Regular octave, concert horn. I'm going to try and make ensemble tonight and I'll see if it is consistent improvement. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Dixon Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 6 minutes ago, BRASSO said: I recognize and fully accept that some people.. ok lots of people.. accept the full values of incomplete evaluations that incomplete panels provide. I am cool with that too. I just expressed my own opinion that for me, such scores and spreads are essentially meaningless.. yes, with even the " who won and by how much they won " and all the way down to all the other Corps with incomplete evaluations at such shows. Its just how I view incomplete evaluations providing such scores and spreads, and how I personally evaluate such scores and spreads from these incomplete show competition evaluations, thats all. Well if we take that thought process further so are gaps with any contest without all the corps present. Because missing corps effects gaps just as much as a partial panel in some cases that would make for a very brief competitive summer of a couple regionals and worlds. Be a dull world! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 5 minutes ago, George Dixon said: Oh boy. I bet if Crusaders had been at the show and beaten Cadets you wouldn't call the scores worthless No.. you would have.. lol! Good grief.. looks like I unintentionally struck a nerve here. I am NOT advocating for Corps doing exhibitions. I am advocating for DCI to provide full panels for ALL DCI shows. Corps staffers, marchers give 100% effort at these June shows, the same way they do in August. It is not acceptable for DCI/ show sponsors to not match that 100% effort in my opinion. Incomplete panels should not be tolerated, nor permitted in DCI. The kids busting their arse deserve better than this. DCI used to guarantee full evaluations at every show. They should do so now. But look, if people are ok with incomplete, half azz size panels ( a money decision, purely, by the way), then as I said above.,. " thats cool ". I'm just giving my opinion here that such incomplete evaluatiions should be unacceptable, imo.. and that their values thus re. scores. spreads are essentially. meaningless to me. Grant me that OPINION, as I have granted to others their full liberties to accept such incomplete panels, scores/ spreads as they deem fit. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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