What Chester Makes Makes Chester - TOC Show August 3rd

[pudding]

Just now, Hrothgar15 said:

It's interesting to hear someone who marched so recently even acknowledge goo. (FWIW I don't remember Bluecoats 2014 being a particularly bad offender there.) I always just assumed members don't ever think about it, or think drum corps always sounded like that. Has a member ever mentioned concerns about it to staff, namely that the goo is almost always entirely too loud, and physically cannot blend with a brass ensemble?

I remember hearing what brass sounded like back in 2008 when I first started attending live shows; I sat in front of Phantom's hornline in the lot and had my face peeled off, and got to luxuriate in Crown's opening hit of Finis. To me, goo is a blemish on the otherwise beautiful sounds of the brass choir, making it sound more like a tarmac than a football field. Goo can be used tastefully (2014 Bluecoats, as you mentioned, and I felt that 2015 Bluecoats were also nearly undetectable in their usage) but it seems that taste is taking a backseat to rumble this year.

I would also note that in general, members can't hear what is coming out of the speakers. I aged out in 2014, so I didn't get to hear the on-field sound of the satellite speakers of 2015 and onward, but I remember in particular being in Little Rock while the Vince Oliver was working on the pitch bend patch. Usually, the pitch bend was something that we knew happened, and we could hear it a little bit reflected off of the stands, but we went into the seats while he was working on the patch and the difference was absurd; it was nearly painful to listen to (although we had stupidly decided to jump into the first row right in front of the speakers). It really was a night and day difference in terms of sound levels from behind the speakers to in front. I would probably say that most current marchers, having not seen their own show live and from the front, don't know whether they are blending with the goo or not and just trust the staff to do it right.

[PopcornEater1963]

59 minutes ago, Iloveband said:

Really? A lot of blatty sounds from Boston and Cadets. Cavs may not be very loud,  but their center of pitch is much more consistent. Tone quality over volume for me. 

Cavs also don't mic everything that moves on the field.  In Atlanta the other night I was just shaking my head at how a Corps could all be left of 50 and playing back field , and we're hearing the hornline out of PA speakers on field right at full volume.  I don't buy that Cavs have a weaker hornline (especially than Blue Knights, Cadets, or BAC) . I would buy that they've invested less in sticking a mic on anything they can. 

[pudding]

5 minutes ago, PopcornEater1963 said:

Cavs also don't mic everything that moves on the field.  In Atlanta the other night I was just shaking my head at how a Corps could all be left of 50 and playing back field , and we're hearing the hornline out of PA speakers on field right at full volume.  I don't buy that Cavs have a weaker hornline (especially than Blue Knights, Cadets, or BAC) . I would buy that they've invested less in sticking a mic on anything they can. 

The Cavaliers had at least five shotgun mics on the front of their field. It wasn't terribly noticeable in general, but it was clear from their sectional features that they were artificially louder than other corps of comparable size and quality (e.g. Crown). There were also noticeable differences between when the shotgun mics were being used and when they were turned lower. Also note the stand mics on each of the props in the back of the field, and the effect mics on the ring prop.

Assuming that you're referring to the Bluecoats with that "left of 50, back field" comment, realize that that's part of the intended effect; they turn backfield, but they sound more or less the same. It's a subversion of what you're seeing vs. what you're hearing.

Edited August 4, 2017 by pudding

[PopcornEater1963]

3 minutes ago, pudding said:

The Cavaliers had at least five shotgun mics on the front of their field. It wasn't terribly noticeable in general, but it was clear from their sectional features that they were artificially louder than other corps of comparable size and quality (e.g. Crown). There were also noticeable differences between when the shotgun mics were being used and when they were turned lower. Also note the stand mics on each of the props in the back of the field, and the effect mics on the ring prop.

Assuming that you're referring to the Bluecoats with that "left of 50, back field" comment, realize that that's part of the intended effect; they turn backfield, but they sound more or less the same. It's a subversion of what you're seeing vs. what you're hearing.

I know they added three mics on the sidelines somewhere around San Antonio show. I don't know of any individual MM with a mic clipped to their bell. Correct me if you think I'm wrong, but from the "sound" of opening day in Indy, other top 5 corps are mic'ing individual bells and mixing them into the PA for "sound reinforcement".  My reaction to a couple of the corps in Indy on 6/22 was that their volume ( indoors in a dome) had crossed over from "pleasant" and "impressive" to "concussive". I tend to listen to horn lines in the parking lot. That tells the true story. 

[DCISkate]

This is my first viewing of shows for this year, live or online. Here are my thoughts on tonight's performances:

- Crossmen: Overall show is good. I do not like the use of props in the first part of the show. From my vantage point, the props make everything look muddy visually. Once they spread them out, things look better. I am looking forward to seeing them again at Allentown where I will be sitting higher up than tonight.

- Carolina Crown: Wow oh wow with that brass line. I loved the first half of the show. I even liked the song from Wicked, one of my favorites.

- Phantom: I am a big fan of the "Phantom sound" but I love, love, love the large guard, especially the end of the show with the guard in white.

- Bluecoats: The electronic problems and the big stage in the middle of the field really ruined this show for me. I am hoping I will appreciate this more when I see it from "upstairs". Tilt was my favorite show and Downside Up was a close second. I am hoping over the next week that I will grow to like this show.

- Cavaliers: By far, this was my favorite show of the night. I can't wait to see this again this weekend and next week. I have a feeling that they have momentum on their side and may surprise some in Indy.

- Cadets: For all of the hate I read here, I really liked their show. I was hoping for a Barb Maroney moment in the show but I feel the singers did a great job. I look forward to seeing it again.

- Cadets2: This was my first viewing of them since their inception and I enjoyed their show. Given their level of performance, I am considering going to the Reading DCA show in August.

Overall, I am amazed at the talent level of today's youth in the activity; so much different than when I marched back in the day.

[pudding]

4 minutes ago, PopcornEater1963 said:

I know they added three mics on the sidelines somewhere around San Antonio show. I don't know of any individual MM with a mic clipped to their bell. Correct me if you think I'm wrong, but from the "sound" of opening day in Indy, other top 5 corps are mic'ing individual bells and mixing them into the PA for "sound reinforcement".  My reaction to a couple of the corps in Indy on 6/22 was that their volume ( indoors in a dome) had crossed over from "pleasant" and "impressive" to "concussive". I tend to listen to horn lines in the parking lot. That tells the true story. 

I'm definitely against what you say, simply clipping wireless mics to bells to reinforce sound; it's cheap, and as you say it makes the sound offensively loud. My biggest qualm with it is that it's so starkly noticeable when corps are and aren't using passive amplification; the truly acoustic sounds are so comparatively quiet, even when I know in my head that without the immediate comparison to the bloated amplified sound, it would sound loud and full. I feel manipulated into wanting more goo reinforcement, even as I dislike it, just because the natural sound of the horns sounds so comparatively weak.

[PopcornEater1963]

13 minutes ago, pudding said:

 

Assuming that you're referring to the Bluecoats with that "left of 50, back field" comment, realize that that's part of the intended effect; they turn backfield, but they sound more or less the same. It's a subversion of what you're seeing vs. what you're hearing.

Perhaps intended. It had very much of the "disembodied head" effect. Not pleasing at all... but that's why we're all entitled to our opinion. I thought it did their show a great disservice. 

 

[Hrothgar15]

3 minutes ago, pudding said:

I'm definitely against what you say, simply clipping wireless mics to bells to reinforce sound; it's cheap, and as you say it makes the sound offensively loud. My biggest qualm with it is that it's so starkly noticeable when corps are and aren't using passive amplification; the truly acoustic sounds are so comparatively quiet, even when I know in my head that without the immediate comparison to the bloated amplified sound, it would sound loud and full. I feel manipulated into wanting more goo reinforcement, even as I dislike it, just because the natural sound of the horns sounds so comparatively weak.

I think at some point we need to ask ourselves if adding electronics and amplification, even if it's gotten us some cool stuff, was really a net positive given how it effects the basics of the sound. Lord knows DCI itself won't ever bring it up.

[pudding]

Just now, Hrothgar15 said:

I think at some point we need to ask ourselves if adding electronics and amplification, even if it's gotten us some cool stuff, was really a net positive given how it effects the basics of the sound. Lord knows DCI itself won't ever bring it up.

Kinetic Noise was the greatest usage of electronics, simply because they used electronics as an effect in and of themselves, and not as a tool to artificially boost the other artistic areas of the activity.

[N.E. Brigand]

44 minutes ago, pudding said:

The Cavaliers had at least five shotgun mics on the front of their field. It wasn't terribly noticeable in general, but it was clear from their sectional features that they were artificially louder than other corps of comparable size and quality (e.g. Crown). There were also noticeable differences between when the shotgun mics were being used and when they were turned lower.

Yeah, at Centerville, there were several big moments where the Cavs' entire brass was being picked up by those front mics and pumped through the speakers. They did a pretty good job at making it sound natural, and as I said the other day, better to amplify the brass than to cover it with synth, and yet...