StunnedMonkey Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 39 minutes ago, MikeN said: So all of those fans in the stadiums (that number keeps growing by the way) and kids who go try out in ever increasing numbers are wrong, but you are right? Mike Well, obviously the activity has its followers. My question is if that if Theater on the Green/Outdoor Show Choir was desired, why not create it as a new activity rather than taking an established activity and changing it to the point that it's no longer close to what it was? It's like the Pizza shop reopens under new management, but now it just sells vegan wraps and soy milk...while insisting it's still a pizza shop. I don't hate all the shows today. They aren't what I want to see but I can usually find a moment or two in a show that I like. But I have to admit that this season has really pushed me to the edge of throwing in the towel with the absurd costuming and near total rejection of anything that DCI used to be. It's great that you like it. Just wish you could have created your own thing rather than hijacking something else. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeN Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 40 minutes ago, Bobby L. Collins said: Yeah, you keep talking about those fans, but are they really fans? The vast majority of them are there because their band directors said "Ok, get on the bus". Some of them may become fans, but I promise you, most of them walk away from it saying "Wow, that was really stupid". Most of rest of them are there because their darling little snowflake is on the field, pulling faces in the front ensemble. So now you know the growing in-person, theater, and streaming audience is only begrudgingly there, and don't like it when they go or view, because you promise me so. Yet more come every year. You don't like DCI right now - I got that. But your assertions are kind of implausible. Mike 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 22 hours ago, ouooga said: I see a lot of people talk about "the old days" and "before we had electronics" and "g bugles" and "why are they dancing?" and "where's the drill" and "why is there a stage?" and so on. I'm personally a fan of the new stuff, but this isn't about me defending it. I want to ask the purists on here, was there more that could have been done with the old style(s)? Go back to 1999, or 1989, or any year that you consider to be "the last year of real drum corps", and take that into the present and beyond. Was there more that could have been done within that box of rules? Ideas that weren't explored, music that got lost, drill that never saw the light of day, etc? Or would we have seen the same ideas perpetuated over and over forever? If the latter, is that the goal? Just something that's been on my mind. I'm curious to hear the thoughts. so far the last year of real drum corps is 2017 cause we havent gotten to 2018 yet 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 21 hours ago, PeterGibbons said: Interesting topic for me as I have given this some thought. About 5 years ago I reignited my interest in the activity after not really paying attention for about 10-15 years. To me shows started to stagnate in even the 90s. Seemed like a lot of the same thing. When I recently started paying attention again, I was your typical old man who wants people off their lawn. I hated narration, hated amplification, even hated trombones. But I was thinking the other day that if the activity had not evolved as it had, I don't think I would be paying attention right now. It would seem to be the same old thing I started getting tired of in the 90s. So I have come to appreciate the 'new stuff'. My all-time 'go-to' show is 1981 27th Lancers. But my favorite show this year is Blue Devils, which obviously is a lot of 'the new'. My point is that I've come to accept the evolution and even old me has embraced it. The issue for me now is not narration or dancing or props galore or amplification or sampling. Rather it is the same old question - is the show good, and is the 'art' being designed well. Crappy shows existed before, and the problem with the modern shows is not so much the new rules, is is bad design. So to directly answer your question, no I don't think much more could have been done the old way, at least for me. Which is why I stopped being interested. preach brother Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 21 hours ago, StunnedMonkey said: Yeah, I think you'd really need to go back to pre-1983 to really be in a Purist era, though one could argue that it ended later when they ditched the bugles. What could have been done withing the context of the old rules? Well, just about everything that did get done so far as drill design and music. DCI was a much more visceral experience "back in the day." It's impossible to describe what sitting on the 50 in front of Madison's 1980 horn line was like, the sopranos lined up on the sideline playing Malguena full volume into you face. No recording can convey that. I get that the modern day fan thinks that we'll all a bunch of old fogeys. But 30 years from now when you've been away from the activity for many years and you decide to catch a show and it's a solo singer suspended from wires, 140 jazz dancers, an electronic drum machine, dueling mixers, a laser light show with pyrotechnics, three mic'd brass players on the sideline playing short fills, suspended big screen TV's, and the whole thing looks like a Beyonce Super Bowl Halftime extravaganza...then you'll understand how we old "purists" feel today. Or something. just as guys from the 40's and 50's felt watching the changesin the 70's and 80's,....dance! no color pres or off the line? heathens! drum corps has been changing since day 1. Has every change been good? No. But change hasn't stopped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 1 hour ago, MikeN said: So all of those fans in the stadiums (that number keeps growing by the way) and kids who go try out in ever increasing numbers are wrong, but you are right? Mike of course! drum corps died when he stopped doing it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 53 minutes ago, Bobby L. Collins said: Yeah, you keep talking about those fans, but are they really fans? The vast majority of them are there because their band directors said "Ok, get on the bus". Some of them may become fans, but I promise you, most of them walk away from it saying "Wow, that was really stupid". Most of rest of them are there because their darling little snowflake is on the field, pulling faces in the front ensemble. Sure, there's a handful of die-hards who will be cupping their hands behind their ears, but by and large the demographic of attendees is a minuscule fragment of the cross section that drum corps once boasted. Now, that won't be true this week. Prelims/Semis/Finals ticketholders are die-hards, and sure, Indy will be a sellout. So don't try to use Indy as a gauge of how popular drum corps is today. It remains a niche activity, but one that has lost a lot of the support of the old vets, the same old vets who supported it throughout the 60s, 70s, 80s, and 90s. That is not anecdotal. It is demonstrable. you're right, Indy isnt a good indicator. let's look at Allentown, one of the harshest old school crowds out there. this year, packed far more than any year except 2012 in many, many years. not a ton of busses from schools there. Faces ranging in age from small kid to some folks who marched in the 50's. Enthusiastic reactions to shows top to bottom. Hell BD got a standing O that wasn't the standard "yay they're done" reaction. increased attendance at many other shows. probably record breaking at the theaters tonight. yeah it's dying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 50 minutes ago, N.E. Brigand said: By no means were a majority of the attendees at Massillon on Monday band students--but there were a lot of band students there. And while I do occasionally notice band students who aren't interested in the shows (there were a couple sitting right next to me a couple days earlier, in Avon Lake), a lot of them were enjoying the performances very much, and cheering for every corps. Would they enjoy it more with less amplification and electronics? Quite possibly. Personally I hope so. But I guarantee you there were people in the 1980s and 1990s who said, "That was really stupid" after seeing a drum corps show then, too. And after a long period of decline, DCI attendance has been on the upswing in the past five years or so. I'm hoping that Flo streaming the DCA championships will help that circuit grow too. DCA needs more than Flo Marching to help it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 37 minutes ago, Lance said: i wish social media had been around in the 80s so we could see "purists" who marched in the 60s and 70s freaking out oh God, the 70's would have been even better! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.E. Brigand Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 6 minutes ago, Jeff Ream said: DCA needs more than Flo Marching to help it. What, in your opinion, does DCA need to thrive and grow? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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