Segmentation: How DCI Has Gotten More Complicated... And Less Difficult

[Bobby L. Collins]

1 minute ago, MotoSurfBass said:

And besides, isn't this discussion based off the idea that we want to see more movement while playing? If some leg wiggle is equivalent to "a teenager snorting cocaine off a hooker's backside" to you, then maybe you're better off watching 1970s performances.

 

And so I shall.

But in the meantime, I will continue to advocate for corps TODAY to dance less and to march more.  Is that okay with you?

[MotoSurfBass]

6 minutes ago, Bobby L. Collins said:

And so I shall.

But in the meantime, I will continue to advocate for corps TODAY to dance less and to march more.  Is that okay with you?

Sure, it's just your opinion after all. I'm just warning that it may ultimately be a futile endeavor. 

[N.E. Brigand]

44 minutes ago, Bobby L. Collins said:

I'll give you a good example. Bluecoats '11. The first big hit of the show. The design of that buildup and hit mandated a park and bark. Instead, we got wiggling bodies, as if they were trying to grab the attention of attendees with their noses buried in their smartphones or something.  You do that with your sound (which they were right on target with that hit), not with your legs.  I envision a scenario where when they were learning that set, the brass and percussion instructors turned their backs for 30 seconds, and the visual team swooped in and said "okguysyouneedtodothisandthisandthisandthisaaaannnnnnnd......go!!!!!!"  Great music. HORRIBLE, needless visual.

Curiously, while I am sympathetic to your general arguments, on specifics we seem to disagree. For everyone's reference, here is the moment in question, with the hit starting at 1:07. That's a case where I feel body movement adds a little difficulty and more than a little effect to what might have been "only" a standstill in other hands. 

 

[hostrauser]

4 hours ago, Everyfan said:

This is a whole lotta text just to say "I'm mad that BD is going to win again." Haters gotta hate.

You know nothing, Jon Snow.

2 hours ago, N.E. Brigand said:

I strongly recommend reading some more of hostrauser's posts. By no means does he hate the Blue Devils. 

Blue Devils 2014 is the best drum corps performance I've ever seen. As close to technically flawless in all aspects as I think is possible in this activity. And I loved their show last year. This year, it's not working for me. At all. And so it goes.

But heck, I grew up in Sacramento. After the Freelancers folded, I tried out for the Blue Devils. I didn't make the cut, but it's not their fault that I march like a pregnant duck with clubfoot. There's no ill will here towards any corps.

[saxfreq1128]

On 8/11/2017 at 0:18 PM, PamahoNow said:

I gotta agree with this completely.  

I watched Bumblebee closely last night.  What a fast, exciting piece, and there was a good bit of movement.  Just not at the same time by the same players, and the most complex movement by the entire brass was when the pit was doing it's thing.  I'm not complaining (I don't think, anyway), and they are being rewarded for it ... and I guess correctly by the sheets that now exist.  

But I also watched Psychopomp and Zomby Wolf.  The difficulty of doing both the movement and the music at the same times seems much much greater.  And I don't even want to think about the closer.  

I would think that somehow the sheets could reward both.   I completely enjoy Devils this year ... and think they are the best corps out there.  But I cannot figure out the way the Bluecoats are being evaluated.  But what they are selling, the judges are  not buying.  But from what I can tell, the audience is.

Have any of you ever tried Interval training? Serious question.

Interval training is alternating short bursts of high intensity cardio (like running) with short recovery periods. And that is precisely what BD is doing during "Flight of the Bumblebee": intense bursts of movement (sprinting) followed short periods of recovery—only, during their recovery periods, BD picks up their horns and jazzes out long, difficult phrases of music. With incredible control.

When I think of it in those terms, yeah, what BD's doing is incredibly difficult. 

When we talk about difficulty, let's really talk about it. The problem with your argument, and so many others (not picking on you), is that you operate from the assumption that "Playing + Marching" is, automatically, the most difficult/athletic thing you be can doing, and evaluating from there. So of course any corps who deviates is set up to fail, by that standard. But you've got to consider the possibility that that isn't true—and the first step to doing so is looking at what BD is doing, not what they're not doing, and awarding credit accordingly. Which is what judges do.

Edited August 12, 2017 by saxfreq1128

[Bobby L. Collins]

2 minutes ago, saxfreq1128 said:

Have any of you ever tried Interval training? Serious question.

Interval training is alternating short bursts of high intensity cardio (like running) with short recovery periods. And that is precisely what BD is doing during "Flight of the Bumblebee": intense bursts of movement followed short periods of recovery—only, during their recovery periods, BD picks up their horns and jazzes out long, difficult phrases of music. With incredible control.

When I think of it in those terms, yeah, what BD's doing is incredibly difficult. 

Final thought: When we talk about difficulty, let's really talk about it. The problem with your argument, and so many others (not picking on you), is that you operate from the assumption that "Playing + Marching" is, automatically, the most difficult/athletic thing you be can doing, and evaluating from there. But from an athletic training perspective, you've got to consider the possibility that that isn't true. 

It is the only universal truth in the entire discourse.

If you're not playing and marching, you're no longer a drum corps.  You're background accompaniment for a dance team.

[saxfreq1128]

On 8/11/2017 at 0:18 PM, PamahoNow said:

But I also watched Psychopomp and Zomby Wolf.  The difficulty of doing both the movement and the music at the same times seems much much greater.  And I don't even want to think about the closer.  

I would think that somehow the sheets could reward both.   I completely enjoy Devils this year ... and think they are the best corps out there.  But I cannot figure out the way the Bluecoats are being evaluated.  But what they are selling, the judges are  not buying.  But from what I can tell, the audience is.

Final thought: BLOO is a top 4 corps; please stop pretending that what they're doing isn't being "rewarded by the judges." Or say it to the face of everyone they're beating. :)

Edited August 12, 2017 by saxfreq1128

[saxfreq1128]

7 minutes ago, Bobby L. Collins said:

It is the only universal truth in the entire discourse.

If you're not playing and marching, you're no longer a drum corps.  You're background accompaniment for a dance team.

You can play sourpuss prescriptivist all you want, but your definition of drum corps matters a lot less to me than the definition of the corps themselves, sorry. 

(I also wasn't talking about the definition of drum corps. I was talking about what's difficult.)

Edited August 12, 2017 by saxfreq1128

[N.E. Brigand]

11 minutes ago, saxfreq1128 said:

Have any of you ever tried Interval training? ...

The problem with your argument, and so many others (not picking on you), is that you operate from the assumption that "Playing + Marching" is, automatically, the most difficult/athletic thing you be can doing, and evaluating from there. So of course any corps who deviates is set up to fail, by that standard. But you've got to consider the possibility that that isn't true—and the first step to doing so is looking at what BD is doing, not what they're not doing, and awarding credit accordingly. Which is what judges do.

This is an interesting point. Though I wonder how many judges have done interval training.

[N.E. Brigand]

6 minutes ago, saxfreq1128 said:

You can play prescriptivist all you want, but your definition of drum corps matters a lot less to me than the definition of the corps themselves, sorry. 

What's your definition of drum corps?