DCI-86 Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 1 hour ago, Mello Dude said: Phantom was here before in 86. Music may not be as problematic as visual but the music is an issue. Please, go back to your helmets, they are awesome on the field. I don't see a recruitment issue. I don't see a talent issue (this is so overrated). You spend untold hours working on (at most) 6-7 minutes ensemble playing. If you are a teacher worth ANYTHING you should be able to get middle school kids to play the book (any corps) in that amount of practice. The problem is design and teaching. I have high hopes. Phantom did the same thing from 86-87. I would also add, stop trying to be a marching band and be the corps that you are. SCV has it figured out. Isn't it amazing what marching and playing do with minimal props? Think about th huge modernisation that took place after 86 (very traditional show that didn’t score well) to 87 (all white uniforms etc.) Can they make the same dramatic change again or will they continue their directionless decline? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricS Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Tim K said: I think Phantom has a few things in its favor that Madison has not had for the past few years. Phantom folks I have spoken to in Indy say that while some criticism is warranted though perhaps a bit too strong, the corps is aware of its issues and will be looking to make changes. Personally I did not see the music as too problematic or the visuals for that matter, but the music and visuals did not fit together. That’s what happens when talented folks don’t share a vision. This is a problem new staff will not solve, but good leadership will solve. Phantom does not have the infighting Madison seems to have, or at least the loud and vocal critics. Madison’s problem this year is not the show and the show may not even be a symptom of the problems, it may just be a show that did not work. The problems Madison is facing have been growing for at least five years now. They almost came to a head in 2016 when Madison placed 13th, but after a return to finals in 2017, all was forgotten. That’s not where Phantom is, or if it is, it’s well hidden. The biggest immediate challenges for Phantom are retaining veterans and recruitment. After FREE Players last night I was wiped out, so I did not stay for age outs, so I did not see how many automatic holes Phantom will need to fill. Then there is the natural movement from one corps to another. Phantom culd be looking at a rookie heavy corps. However, this could be a beginning too. Crossmen have been counted out in the past due to rookies and it has not happened. BAC was rookie heavy in 2016, and when Cadets had issues not related to show design in 2017, ardent defenders pointed out that membership was young which made what they accomplished more impressive. members would not be a problem if the staff and program was up to parr Soft pedaling the issues is not going to help. The music sucked and the show design sucked. Will Pitts is simply not up to the the task. Edited August 11, 2018 by EricS 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim_brandt Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 1 hour ago, Tim K said: I think Phantom has a few things in its favor that Madison has not had for the past few years. Phantom folks I have spoken to in Indy say that while some criticism is warranted though perhaps a bit too strong, the corps is aware of its issues and will be looking to make changes. Personally I did not see the music as too problematic or the visuals for that matter, but the music and visuals did not fit together. That’s what happens when talented folks don’t share a vision. This is a problem new staff will not solve, but good leadership will solve. Phantom does not have the infighting Madison seems to have, or at least the loud and vocal critics. Madison’s problem this year is not the show and the show may not even be a symptom of the problems, it may just be a show that did not work. The problems Madison is facing have been growing for at least five years now. They almost came to a head in 2016 when Madison placed 13th, but after a return to finals in 2017, all was forgotten. That’s not where Phantom is, or if it is, it’s well hidden. The biggest immediate challenges for Phantom are retaining veterans and recruitment. After FREE Players last night I was wiped out, so I did not stay for age outs, so I did not see how many automatic holes Phantom will need to fill. Then there is the natural movement from one corps to another. Phantom could be looking at a rookie heavy corps. However, this could be a beginning too. Crossmen have been counted out in the past due to rookies and it has not happened. BAC was rookie heavy in 2016, and when Cadets had issues not related to show design in 2017, ardent defenders pointed out that membership was young which made what they accomplished more impressive. "or at least the loud and vocal critics" I agree with you. Regiment members tend to be more of the reserved type. I also tend to think that tops and bottoms both bring the alumni out of the woodwork in different ways. So many people care deeply about this corps, and I know that many are concerned and looking to help the organization in whatever way that they can. I personally agree that like '86, this is a great opportunity for reinvention. We'll see how the offseason pans out. Honestly, this show could have worked much better if it had some GE moments built in. In my view, it was a failure in programming. Just my thoughts, but I also know that I have no idea. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdaddy Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 The rumor that I just started: Jeff Prosperie isn't judging finals because he's preparing to rejoin Regiment. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocketman Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 5 minutes ago, kdaddy said: The rumor that I just started: Jeff Prosperie isn't judging finals because he's preparing to rejoin Regiment. Percussion isn't the (major) problem. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim_brandt Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 13 minutes ago, kdaddy said: The rumor that I just started: Jeff Prosperie isn't judging finals because he's preparing to rejoin Regiment. As Program Coordinator? I am looking forward to the entire corps playing bells and shakers. ... maybe some triangles for good measure. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePlanets Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 Here's my 2 cents Phantoms show was as beautiful musically as any of their shows in the past and I am really sad we missed them in Massillon...where my husband who is a huge Phantom Regiment fan could have enjoyed their beautiful chords from the front. I do think they are loosing the best of the best for classical brass players to Carolina Crown but I think there is a way that Phantoms shows could have a better design without loosing their identity. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim_brandt Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 (edited) On 8/11/2018 at 10:21 AM, Rocketman said: Percussion isn't the (major) problem. Agreed. They are executing quite well. Edited August 19, 2018 by tim_brandt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim_brandt Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 (edited) On 8/10/2018 at 3:44 PM, Cappybara said: Not a fan at all of Key Poulan's high school work but really love what he's done with the Mandarins Edited August 19, 2018 by tim_brandt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocketman Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 (edited) 7 minutes ago, ThePlanets said: Here's my 2 cents Phantoms show was as beautiful musically as any of their shows in the past and I am really sad we missed them in Massillon...where my husband who is a huge Phantom Regiment fan could have enjoyed their beautiful chords from the front. I do think they are loosing the best of the best for classical brass players to Carolina Crown but I think there is a way that Phantoms shows could have a better design without loosing their identity. We need to move beyond 'identity' and toward viability/sustainability. The only saving grace the corps has (IMO) is the fact that members have limited options. THAT may keep the corps around, but it will not result in them being competitive. There is no way to say this without it coming across disparagingly, so here goes. They are on their way (if not yet there already) to becoming the Pioneer of the top 12. Just a nice little corps that doesn't offend you but also doesn't do much for you either. Pioneer has stayed true to their identity too! Edited August 11, 2018 by Rocketman 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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