Why is Drum Corps the most predictable activity in all of sports?

[Jeff Ream]

6 hours ago, Bluzes said:

Agreed but not the with the predictably of the NBA lost 5 grand one year cured me of doing anymore sports betting.

griping is far more predictable in drum corps.

[Jeff Ream]

5 hours ago, Lance said:

Individual performance quality is pretty amazing, actually. 

Just keeps getting better and better. 

With regard to he actual topic, rubric-based scoring attempts to be more objective than holistic scoring, whether we're talking about "judging" the quality of an essay or a dci show. All the rubric really does is break holistic scoring into several categories. It's not really objective at all. The idea of scoring dci performances is pretty silly to me. It wasn't always like that for me, but I've grown or something. 

don't stop him he's on a roll

[Jeff Ream]

4 hours ago, ShortAndFast said:

"Why is drum corps scoring so predictable"?

Because the scoring mostly looks at things that do not change from night to night. The repertoire is 50% of the score on paper, but it's more than that in practice because it's a soft cap on the performance number (you will never see a DCI recap with something like repertoire 7.6 performance 9.1). There are other things that impact the score that also do not change: the age and experience of the players in your line, the experience and reputation of the staff that teaches them, the characteristic techniques that your group uses.

You get the idea.

If you mostly judge the stuff that doesn't change, then scores will go up over time but placements will mostly stay the same.

To see the opposite extreme, prior to 1984 DCI mostly judged individual performer errors, or "ticks". This changed a lot from night to night, or depending on which parts of the corps the judge sampled. Scores and placements, as you'd expect, were much more volatile in those days.

Neither way is "right". The DCI member corps collectively choose how they want to be adjudicated, and they seem pretty happy with the status quo.

agreed. the tick system was even more subjective, because there was never a universally defined tick. the sheets had far less criteria on them, if any at all. and while things dont change from night to night, the performance of the material does or should grow, and thus allow a judge to see more of the material in ways to give credit for it when it is achieved.

[Bluzes]

2 hours ago, Box5Opinion said:

Not predictable, don't bash the Blue Devils for figuring out the score sheets and being to develop and maximizing their shows. 

I do not know how to react to this. I was complementing BD for having a wonderful run, not the opposite. The Devils as a whole seemed perfect in everything. Made my mind wander to a statement Rita Moreno made on a dci PBS broadcast. Went something like this "although the guard came across wonderful as an ensemble you could pick them apart individually, thought to myself dci could have brought her back 15 years ago and she would have a different opinion but the Devils that night, just wow! 

[Bluzes]

19 minutes ago, Jeff Ream said:

griping is far more predictable in drum corps.

If griping is what you think I am doing, OK. One could point to me being overly concerned about certain policies as a dig or something, it's not. I shake in my boots about thing's I see occurring today. Duck Boat incident, amusement park liable suits, where executives at home barbeques during the incident now going to jail. Sometimes spur of the moment decisions lead to unintended and horrible results.

[Fran Haring]

47 minutes ago, Jeff Ream said:

agreed. the tick system was even more subjective, because there was never a universally defined tick. the sheets had far less criteria on them, if any at all. and while things dont change from night to night, the performance of the material does or should grow, and thus allow a judge to see more of the material in ways to give credit for it when it is achieved.

Yeah... and sometimes, it sure seemed the "criteria" were directly related to the uniform a given judge used to wear.

If you get my drift.

Edited July 24, 2018 by Fran Haring

[MikeRapp]

18 hours ago, Bluzes said:

No mystery, intrigue, suspense or surprises, my biggest down side come finals week. Why can any NFL team beat any other team on any given night. Why can't this predictably extend to paramutual betting so I can get rich? Inquiring minds want to know?

Please don't insult one's common sense by pointing to the judges having more Gigabytes of brain power than most including ump's, ref's, Olympic judges and what nots? The peer level agreement is off the charts beyond any boardroom agreement level. Multibilion dollars are invested with 55% - 60% agreement, dci is in the over 95%, why? I am going to love it when SCV wins this year, it's not about them. It's about going to the World Series or Superbowl and knowing the outcome going in. Wish I could brain shred any knowlege of the season going into finals week. I really can't believe the staff or talent level of any given corps is consistanty far superior every night?

Was able to in front of the wife & friends the other night get the entire top 16 correct, there's no way I should have been able to do that. Wife knew I am not that smart but the friends, funny.

DCI is a very unique concept. There’s really nothing else like it. You have a preset potential maximum score, a de facto preset floor, and the goal of judging is to get the last show rankings correct. Every show before finals is judged on the previous shows placement, with the goal of slowly “gliding” each corps to the “right” final score.

More important, far more important, is the fact that historically final placements are almost always lockstep with the average age/experience of the corps. I would agree that this is a self fulfilling prophecy, nevertheless, it stands to reason that if you are marching 120+ college kids with 4-6 years of experience, vs 120+ high school kids with little to no experience, you’re going to win every single night.

Finally, I will close with what two Time college basketball coach of the year Eddie Fogler once said when asked if officials cheat:

”Every official knows who is supposed to win.”

DCI is not pro sports, or even college sports. It is not a level playing field, and likely never will be. I don’t care for it, but I also don’t have a solution.

[mfrontz]

3 hours ago, gak27 said:

I think I remember seeing a rather lengthy thread on here at some point titled "Competitive Inertia"...

Shhhhhhhhh 

[Jeff Ream]

7 hours ago, Bluzes said:

If griping is what you think I am doing, OK. One could point to me being overly concerned about certain policies as a dig or something, it's not. I shake in my boots about thing's I see occurring today. Duck Boat incident, amusement park liable suits, where executives at home barbeques during the incident now going to jail. Sometimes spur of the moment decisions lead to unintended and horrible results.

the post wasnt specifically aimed at you, you can relax

[Box5Opinion]

8 hours ago, Bluzes said:

I do not know how to react to this. I was complementing BD for having a wonderful run, not the opposite. The Devils as a whole seemed perfect in everything. Made my mind wander to a statement Rita Moreno made on a dci PBS broadcast. Went something like this "although the guard came across wonderful as an ensemble you could pick them apart individually, thought to myself dci could have brought her back 15 years ago and she would have a different opinion but the Devils that night, just wow! 

I agree, the Blue Devils are having an amazing run, they have the most consistent and cohesive staff (some have been there for 30 plus years) and with that, they can be consistent in developing and execution of many amazing shows.