It is time for the business of the activity to evolve

[oldbandguy]

9 minutes ago, LabMaster said:

Who is talking about revenue sharing?  The OP is talking about PURCHASING power.  There is a secondary premise regarding some shared revenue of spiciest, but primarily it is leveraging procurement of goods and services.

and this has been going on in DCI for several years now.

[Jeff Ream]

6 hours ago, LabMaster said:

I agree it wouldn't be millions, but it might be what the market bears.  It might require corps unifying their purchasing power to get a vendor to participate in improving pricing for each group.  As part of DCI, there is already unity in the needs for for performance product.  Maybe not all corps go to a single source (that not always a good thing anyway) but a group of corps get together to select a vendor,  rather than each corps having individual relationships with suppliers, then set up group purchasing.  If the vendor wants more business, they can approach more corps to increase their market share.  

Companies like Nike have HUGE marketing budgets and can take some financial hits to gain more business in several areas.  When you earn $25b plus each year you can do this.  And NCAA football is a cash cow for many schools.  But I don't want to start a debate on that subject.

in this market, major companies want no hits, because that could affect shareholder value.

[rpbobcat]

9 hours ago, garfield said:

 

DCI should be a lot of things.  But DCI has only a couple of jobs to do according to its charter and by-laws.  

 

To me,this is the problem in a nutshell.

"DCI should be a lot of things".

Thing is,I don't think they want to.

I think they're very happy with the "couple of jobs" they have to do.

As has been discussed in several previous threads.

DCI seems to have no interest in functioning as Drum Corps' Governing Body.

Including exploring the suggestions in this thread regarding co-operative purchasing for

all corps.

 

 

 

 

[MikeRapp]

9 hours ago, ShortAndFast said:

A discount on Lucas Oil and some office space. The fact that this is good enough to lock finals into Indy until roughly the heat death of the universe paints a pretty clear picture of how many other cities were bidding to be DCI's home town!

I think you are asking legit questions, but I suspect the honest answer in most cases is that DCI's audience and participation are far too small to be of interest to major  sponsors.

Put yourself in the shoes (ha!) of Nike's CMO. You have hundreds or even thousands of sports, teams, activities and events around the world that you could spend your marketing budget on. Here's the list of all the stuff you are already doing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nike_sponsorships. What does DCI bring to the table that benefits Nike more than those existing ones?

Despite what it may appear to be interested in, Nike and other large apparel companies are in fact interested in niche industries. Most would be shocked to learn of the literally hundreds of athletics interests they are involved in. You don’t know about it unless you are in the niche.

I agree that DCI is small compared to the NFL, but it’s not small. It’s a very large and unique activity in the world of youth “sports.” Where the issue may be is that uniforms are not provided by the Nike’s of the world, but shoes could be. Nike makes referee shoes, which is certainly a very niche industry. They also do cheerleading apparel and gear.

Edited August 23, 2019 by MikeRapp

[MikeRapp]

7 hours ago, LabMaster said:

Who is talking about revenue sharing?  The OP is talking about PURCHASING power.  There is a secondary premise regarding some shared revenue of spiciest, but primarily it is leveraging procurement of goods and services.

Several of us were talking about revenue sharing. DCI already has limited revenue sharing for ticket sales. Merch would require a different type of agreement that probably would never fly with the members.

Edited August 23, 2019 by MikeRapp

[garfield]

9 hours ago, rpbobcat said:

To me,this is the problem in a nutshell.

"DCI should be a lot of things".

Thing is,I don't think they want to.

I think they're very happy with the "couple of jobs" they have to do.

As has been discussed in several previous threads.

DCI seems to have no interest in functioning as Drum Corps' Governing Body.

Including exploring the suggestions in this thread regarding co-operative purchasing for

all corps.

OK, hold up.  Don't take your post any further because it appears you're still not getting it.

It's NOT as if "DCI", the executive offices, has rejected being more than it is.  It is a function of what the corps directors, via their voting members, instruct DCI what to do and to what extent.

Dan A has, to my knowledge, agreed enthusiastically to take on every and all challenges that the BoD have charged him with, even as that same Board demands every year, as the DCI's founding purpose and has been since, that all "profits" that DCI makes be paid out every year, and sometimes twice a year, to the corps themselves.

Again, I have heard Dan A publicly state that he will be whatever his BoD ask him to be, and he seems plenty confident that he knows enough with 35 years of experience to accomplish darn-near everything they ask him to do. 

The fact is that Dan's office COMPETES with the corps themselves for "profit" dollars after all expenses of organizing and presenting the tour are paid (the accounting is actually more nefarious than it even sounds).  The DCI BoD can proclaim a goal and charge Dan and staff to accomplish it but, so long as the corps' payout is an "above the line" expense that "DCI" has no control over what-so-ever, the actions that "DCI" will take towards said goal will be limited and directed by the funding dedicated by the corps directors to accomplish it.  "DCI" (can I stop using quotes now - do you get it?) will not fail in presenting the tour, as THAT goal has primacy over all others - the reason for DCI's existence at its core.  So, if no other dollars are allowed to be dedicated to said goal, it simply will not be accomplished and any "mandates" issued by DCI to accomplish the goal are "summarily rejected" by the membership.

In fairness, of course, there have been many things tried and funded over the decades, most of which you can find discussed in these threads.  And it's true that the BoD has funded Dan's "Master Plans" to varying extents over the years.  The BoD has not issued entirely unfunded mandates.

Still, if you one runs a very successful drum corps and also runs a competitive HS program with an accepted adjudication system, one is not likely to vote for much money to be spent on similar tasks in the DCI offices, and one's ego may even make one believe that one could run that similar task in DCI BETTER than DCI's staff can.

If one runs an incredibly successful drum corps and also runs a very profitable ticketing platform, one might consider yours better and determine funding at the DCI level is unnecessary.

If one runs a massive drum corps operation that also includes incredible video productions facilities, one might be less willing to spend similar dollars at the DCI level and choose to keep the task of video marketing your corps within your own walls.  Votes to fund duplicate (and perceptively worse) central tasks that MOST people would think better accomplished centrally in the DCI offices are hard to find as a result. 

DCI's funding has been continually reduced to the tour only.  All other tasks are the responsibilities of the individual corps.  Some corps do these things for themselves very well.  Others would appreciate the "scale" benefits of group-supply.  Money talks:  "Get Better".

After this long reply, I'll end with the reminder of my observations over decades:

DCI offices are "interested" (enthusiastic) to be exactly what it's Board of Directors wants, and funds, it to be.

 

 

Edited August 23, 2019 by garfield

[garfield]

14 hours ago, Glenn426 said:

 

You seem to know Dan Personally and perhaps that is having an influence on your views of the Leadership in DCI, but they have old ideas, using old methods. How much has the Model changed from the 90's? You say that they are aware of it, but outside of having a Person from the Dept of Agriculture on their board, they only have Corps Directors on their Board.

Of those Corps directors who has had business training? They know the business of Drum Corps but don't know the business of Show Business. And that is the point of this discussion. Moving DCI from a Mom and Pop (amateur) Organization into Professional entertainment. They pay two sports marketing companies a total of $250,000 a year to run their marketing but outside of our little niche, who knows about Drum Corps? Why isnt Drum Corps seen at the level that professional Entertainment is? It's roughly the same amount of Money to take your family to see a Baseball game, or a Cirque Show. We as paying DCI customers only pay that much because we have a personal relationship to the Marching arts activity. What about Joe-smoe on the corner looking for something to do on a Wednesday night in Iowa.. Why couldn't he come to the show and spend some money?

There is money being left on the table that a person with an actual education in the business of making money could implement to make DCI more profitable. 

And yes introducing a 22 yr Old would be a hard Ego hit for someone who's been around for 40 years to understand that a 22yr old might have new ideas that might be better for the Organization, but its absolutely possible that a young person, Maybe even a recent age-out with College accredited Business experience might have some connections and could present a business model different from the current one to make DCI and all of its Corps more money. Outside of the Politics in DCI, a good idea is a good idea, no matter who's mouth it comes from.. 

I want to soften my reply a bit by assuring you that almost ALL of your complaints about what the drum corps activity is not are perfectly understandable, and I agree with most of them.

I absolutely disagree that some young kid is going to waltz in and convince, or demand from, the BoD or directors to follow some theoretically experimental path just because some professor in his college made an impact.

The issue is two-fold: understand where that decision-making power rests and make the case convincing enough that the Directors are willing to give up control of their successful operational functions to centralize a common practice.

Centralized purchasing has been bantered around for years, maybe decades.  It's far from new but no one, so far, has presented a plan that would benefit the corps that already do a darn good job of purchasing for themselves.  Start there, and make your suggestion in dollars, not presumptive declarations of obvious truth. 

[MikeRapp]

Many people misunderstand what DCI is. Which is understandable, as it is not apparent on first blush.

DCI is nothing more than an entity that serves the purpose of promoting drum corps and organizing tours for drum corps. That’s it. It exists ONLY because a couple dozen corps organizations fund it every year. In other words, the dog wags the tail, and the dog are two dozen disparate corps. 

Disparate corps. In many more ways than not. Those closer to the activity could tell you just how disparate they actually are. When push comes to shove, and it often does, the member corps and all the politics that come with that decide literally everything. DCI has no power whatsoever other than the powers granted by the corps. None. Not any. So if you complain about judging criterion, as I often do, remember DCI decides nothing. Zero. The member corps decide judging and DCI enforces it.

I do believe that there are likely economies of scale for drum corps that could be managed by DCI, but also could be managed outside of dci. The unique aspect of this activity in my experience is that the haves are way way more self sustaining than the have nots. It’s the nature of how this activity runs. When you have that huge of a gap it is very difficult to get groups to agree on much of anything. That isn’t DCI’s fault.

[garfield]

8 minutes ago, MikeRapp said:

Many people misunderstand what DCI is. Which is understandable, as it is not apparent on first blush.

DCI is nothing more than an entity that serves the purpose of promoting drum corps and organizing tours for drum corps. That’s it. It exists ONLY because a couple dozen corps organizations fund it every year. In other words, the dog wags the tail, and the dog are two dozen disparate corps. 

Disparate corps. In many more ways than not. Those closer to the activity could tell you just how disparate they actually are. When push comes to shove, and it often does, the member corps and all the politics that come with that decide literally everything. DCI has no power whatsoever other than the powers granted by the corps. None. Not any. So if you complain about judging criterion, as I often do, remember DCI decides nothing. Zero. The member corps decide judging and DCI enforces it.

I do believe that there are likely economies of scale for drum corps that could be managed by DCI, but also could be managed outside of dci. The unique aspect of this activity in my experience is that the haves are way way more self sustaining than the have nots. It’s the nature of how this activity runs. When you have that huge of a gap it is very difficult to get groups to agree on much of anything. That isn’t DCI’s fault.

Yes, you get it.

Thanks.

 

[rpbobcat]

29 minutes ago, garfield said:

OK, hold up.  Don't take your post any further because it appears you're still not getting it.

It's NOT as if "DCI", the executive offices, has rejected being more than it is.  It is a function of what the corps directors, via their voting members, instruct DCI what to do and to what extent.

Dan A has, to my knowledge, agreed enthusiastically to take on every and all challenges that the BoD have charged him with, even as that same Board demands every year, as the DCI's founding purpose and has been since, that all "profits" that DCI makes be paid out every year, and sometimes twice a year, to the corps themselves.

Again, I have heard Dan A publicly state that he will be whatever his BoD ask him to be, and he seems plenty confident that he knows enough with 35 years of experience to accomplish darn-near everything they as him to do. 

The fact is that Dan's office COMPETES with the corps themselves for "profit" dollars after all expenses of organizing and presenting the tour are paid (the accounting is actually more nefarious than it even sounds).  The DCI BoD can proclaim a goal and charge Dan and staff to accomplish it but, so long as the corps' payout is an "above the line" expense that "DCI" has no control over what-so-ever, the actions that "DCI" will take towards said goal will be limited and directed by the funding dedicated by the corps directors to accomplish it.  "DCI" (can I stop using quotes now - do you get it?) will not fail in presenting the tour as THAT goal is has primacy over all others - the reason for DCI's existence at its core.  So, if no other dollars are allowed to be dedicated to said goal, it simply will not be accomplished and any "mandates" issued by DCI to accomplish the goal are "summarily rejected" by the membership.

In fairness, of course, there have been many things tried and funded over the decades, most of which you can find discussed in these threads.  And it's true that the BoD has funded Dan's "Master Plans" to varying extents over the years.  The BoD has not issued entirely unfunded mandates.

Still, if you one runs a very successful drum corps and also runs a competitive HS program with an accepted adjudication system, one is not likely to vote for much money to be spent on similar tasks in the DCI offices, and one's ego may even make one believe that one could run that similar task in DCI BETTER than DCI's staff can.

If one runs an incredibly successful drum corps and also runs a very profitable ticketing platform, one might consider yours better and determine funding at the DCI level is unnecessary.

If one runs a massive drum corps operation that also includes incredible video productions facilities, one might be less willing to spend similar dollars at the DCI level and choose to keep the task of video marketing your corps within your own walls.  Votes to fund duplicate (and perceptively worse) central tasks that MOST people would think better accomplished centrally in the DCI offices are hard to find as a result. 

DCI's funding has been continually reduced to the tour only.  All other tasks are the responsibilities of the individual corps.  Some corps do these things for themselves very well.  Others would appreciate the "scale" benefits of group-supply.  Money talks:  "Get Better".

After this long reply, I'll end with the reminder of my observations over decades:

DCI offices are "interested" (enthusiastic) to be exactly what it's Board of Directors wants, and funds, it to be.

 

 

Actually I do get it.

if you read my posts,I never mentioned anything about Dan.

As you have said,and I agree,he does what he is directed to do by the BoD.

My issue is with the incestuous make up of the overall organization,including the  BoD.

I've seen several posts over the years referring to DCI's organizational structure as "the inmates running the asylum".

That seems to fit.

As I've posted,until corps directors are willing to give up some power,and allow the creation of a

true governing body,nothing,including the suggestions made on this thread will,based on past actions,

go anywhere.

I also think its highly unlikely this will ever happen.

 

 

 

Edited August 23, 2019 by rpbobcat