greg_orangecounty Posted March 20, 2021 Share Posted March 20, 2021 13 hours ago, GUARDLING said: greg- Come to think of it the actual points that are given now may not have come about till much later maybe the late 90s...Sad but true THAT late!? Wow. I'm very surprised to hear that. Better very late than never, I guess. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IllianaLancerContra Posted March 20, 2021 Share Posted March 20, 2021 55 minutes ago, greg_orangecounty said: THAT late!? Wow. I'm very surprised to hear that. Better very late than never, I guess. The 'problem' was, in the early days, that to have a Guard caption, & still keep total score at 100 points, the points would have to come out of some other caption. IIRC for a few years there was 2-point Guard sub-caption; don't recall what it fed into (visual GE, M&M execution, or what?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim K Posted March 21, 2021 Share Posted March 21, 2021 Initially there was a two point score for color guard as part of GE and some people may recall one year where a corps that received perfect 2.0 nearly all season has a rifle drop at finals which cost .1 from the color guard score and .1 in a penalty which was the difference between first and second place. While two points may seem insignificant and there were proposals to increase the points early on, when you watch corps such as 27th, Phantom, Blue Devils, Santa Clara, the guards were very much integrated into the shows and if the guard was spot on, the show was too. Bad night for the guard, bad night for the corps. It was about this time Cavies began make strides and their guard played a huge role. About this same time WGI was formed and with the improvement in competitive guards we saw this in the field in the summer. Scoring the guard properly took time, but the guard’s critical role in the show happened much earlier, even if not directly scored. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg_orangecounty Posted March 21, 2021 Share Posted March 21, 2021 6 hours ago, IllianaLancerContra said: The 'problem' was, in the early days, that to have a Guard caption, & still keep total score at 100 points, the points would have to come out of some other caption. Even back then they could have taken at least 10 points, probably more, from Drums and put it towards a Color Guard caption. Drummers wouldn't have noticed 🤣 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted March 21, 2021 Share Posted March 21, 2021 29 minutes ago, greg_orangecounty said: Even back then they could have taken at least 10 points, probably more, from Drums and put it towards a Color Guard caption. Drummers wouldn't have noticed 🤣 Problem was ( As I remember ) it took a while for ALL to realize the importance of a large part of membership and what their contribution was, even back then. It was also a trend moving forward, the visual appeal, excitement, enhancement to music, mood creation etc etc but still took years to convince other parts of a corps to see what guard contribution was to their own sections. Eventually when judging, fans, growth of the guard activity all around etc etc that some got shoved forward liking it or not. Lets take your own corps for instance,. Even wayyyyyyy back then, the beginning of the guard contribution was huge. I can remember the guard opening statement file WOW! Set the tone for everything at the time. Things were changing for sure. Many went along for the ride, some went kicking and screaming some chose to be left behind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg_orangecounty Posted March 21, 2021 Share Posted March 21, 2021 1 hour ago, GUARDLING said: Lets take your own corps for instance,. Even wayyyyyyy back then, the beginning of the guard contribution was huge. I can remember the guard opening statement file WOW! Set the tone for everything at the time. Things were changing for sure. Many went along for the ride, some went kicking and screaming some chose to be left behind. That OTL file was a Stanley Knaub creation. Other corps (*cough* P.R. *cough*), and every CA high school band with a guard in the 70's copied it. Had Color Guards been given equal weight in scoring as brass and drums......DCI Finals placements would have looked a little different some years. IMHO. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IllianaLancerContra Posted March 21, 2021 Share Posted March 21, 2021 (edited) 12 hours ago, GUARDLING said: Problem was ( As I remember ) it took a while for ALL to realize the importance of a large part of membership and what their contribution was, even back then. It was also a trend moving forward, the visual appeal, excitement, enhancement to music, mood creation etc etc but still took years to convince other parts of a corps to see what guard contribution was to their own sections. Eventually when judging, fans, growth of the guard activity all around etc etc that some got shoved forward liking it or not. Lets take your own corps for instance,. Even wayyyyyyy back then, the beginning of the guard contribution was huge. I can remember the guard opening statement file WOW! Set the tone for everything at the time. Things were changing for sure. Many went along for the ride, some went kicking and screaming some chose to be left behind. Thanks, our small guard would appreciate your words. But you may be thinking 27 Lancers, not Illiana Lancers. Edited March 21, 2021 by IllianaLancerContra speling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Continental Posted March 21, 2021 Author Share Posted March 21, 2021 18 hours ago, IllianaLancerContra said: The 'problem' was, in the early days, that to have a Guard caption, & still keep total score at 100 points, the points would have to come out of some other caption. IIRC for a few years there was 2-point Guard sub-caption; don't recall what it fed into (visual GE, M&M execution, or what?) I checked the recaps on Fromthepressbox.com It looks like the 2 points for guard were part of the recaps for '78 and '79. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Continental Posted March 21, 2021 Author Share Posted March 21, 2021 On 3/19/2021 at 11:38 PM, greg_orangecounty said: In the early years of DCI, Color Guard "scores" were lumped together as "G.E. Visual," right? What year did they get their own separate-individual score? Should have been from Day 1. Looking at recaps, guard ranking and how it's presented is all over the place. Some scores out of 2 (see above), some 10, some out of 100 - and when it's supposed to be out of 100, some guards are over 100 by a lot. Sometimes the recaps could use the help of a Universal Translator... It's not easy to define how exactly the rankings contributed to the score or if they were assigned a score just to determine rank. From what I can see, guard became part of the visual average in 2000 (you see their contribution to the average broken down as separate contribution in the visual caption). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
traverbanking Posted March 21, 2021 Share Posted March 21, 2021 It's important to remember that during the '70s. '80s and '90s, a separate judge was hired for the championship to judge color guard. This judge's score was NOT added to the other judges' scores. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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