Phantom Regiment 2023

[Land_Surfer]

1 hour ago, Rocketman said:

Agreed. I like WGI. I just don't like that it has infected DCI. If I were a brass player today, I'd be a little miffed that my brass playing expertise has taken a backseat to things unrelated to my ability to play said instrument.

I have to wonder what the 2026 alumni corps production will look like. 

I also feel the same about electronic instruments and amplification… it’s a punch in the gut to a brass player.  I’m still waiting to hear how electronic instruments & amplification compliment a DCI world class horn line.  

[saxfreq1128]

4 hours ago, Land_Surfer said:

WGI’s influence is progressing.  It’s not enough for the percussion to compliment the home book and theme of the show, and have a couple features of their own.  Before long brass instruments will be seen and not heard.  

7 hours ago, Rocketman said:

Well then, get your lazy butts down on the field like the 'good old days' and risk getting trampled. As far as the number of percussion breaks goes, I for one find them to be a distraction more than a compliment. It seems (to this dino) percussion breaks are used as a time for the brass players to, 1. move props 2. emote 3. bug stomp 4. whatever. I'd rather hear a musical phrase carried out than interrupted by percussion. (I did say I was a dino, didn't I?)

Have you guys not seen the way that batteries literally sit out huge chunks of every show? Most ballads — for example — by most corps, most years, for many decades, have completely ignored the battery. To the point about what the hornline is doing during percussion breaks: Ever notice what most drumlines are doing during most ballads, brass features, etc? When you watch any run of the mill lot video, it’s remarkable how little playing time, comparatively, the battery gets.

The trade-off might be an extra drum feature or so, but that doesn’t mean brass isn’t still the predominant musical focus of DCI. Featuring drum lines more does not = featuring brass lines less. 

Edited July 11, 2023 by saxfreq1128

[Rocketman]

13 hours ago, saxfreq1128 said:

Have you guys not seen the way that batteries literally sit out huge chunks of every show? Most ballads — for example — by most corps, most years, for many decades, have completely ignored the battery. To the point about what the hornline is doing during percussion breaks: Ever notice what most drumlines are doing during most ballads, brass features, etc? When you watch any run of the mill lot video, it’s remarkable how little playing time, comparatively, the battery gets.

The trade-off might be an extra drum feature or so, but that doesn’t mean brass isn’t still the predominant musical focus of DCI. Featuring drum lines more does not = featuring brass lines less. 

Not sure I buy this. My main issue is, we get 30 maybe 45 seconds possibly even up to a minute of brass playing then we turn it over to the percussion which, to me, causes the piece to become segmented and uncoordinated. Your ballad argument isn't valid either as on far too many occasions, the brass is playing a beautiful ballad while the percussion is jamming away to see how many notes they can play. It totally ruins the moment. It seems that percussion writing is competing with, not complementing, the brass writing. THAT is the WGI influence on full display.

[Cappybara]

14 hours ago, saxfreq1128 said:

Have you guys not seen the way that batteries literally sit out huge chunks of every show? Most ballads — for example — by most corps, most years, for many decades, have completely ignored the battery. To the point about what the hornline is doing during percussion breaks: Ever notice what most drumlines are doing during most ballads, brass features, etc? When you watch any run of the mill lot video, it’s remarkable how little playing time, comparatively, the battery gets.

The trade-off might be an extra drum feature or so, but that doesn’t mean brass isn’t still the predominant musical focus of DCI. Featuring drum lines more does not = featuring brass lines less. 

We are usually in agreement but I'm going to have to respectfully disagree here. The battery sits out of ballads because they usually cannot fit in well enough musically to enhance the piece. The mood simply does not call for them, and inserting them in for the sake of giving them playing time is the exact reason why these multiple drum breaks are not being as well received by some. For example, I find both of BD's drum breaks to be quite long this year, a bit disruptive, and the writing is really not musical enough to justify the length of each feature. I think there is a way to feature the battery in this era of removing on-field judges, and I believe it should be through proper staging, not increased features. It is very difficult to introduce a drum break that isn't absolutely jarring in flow to the rest of the show. The writing of this era is certainly more complex and difficult than in years past, but at what cost? 

[Vuitton]

15 hours ago, Land_Surfer said:

I’m still waiting to hear how electronic instruments & amplification compliment a DCI world class horn line.  

May I present - the 2014 Bluecoats.

But, I agree as a whole. Once in how many years has this really worked well.

[saxfreq1128]

5 hours ago, Cappybara said:

We are usually in agreement but I'm going to have to respectfully disagree here. The battery sits out of ballads because they usually cannot fit in well enough musically to enhance the piece. The mood simply does not call for them, and inserting them in for the sake of giving them playing time is the exact reason why these multiple drum breaks are not being as well received by some. For example, I find both of BD's drum breaks to be quite long this year, a bit disruptive, and the writing is really not musical enough to justify the length of each feature. I think there is a way to feature the battery in this era of removing on-field judges, and I believe it should be through proper staging, not increased features. It is very difficult to introduce a drum break that isn't absolutely jarring in flow to the rest of the show. The writing of this era is certainly more complex and difficult than in years past, but at what cost? 

 

7 hours ago, Rocketman said:

Not sure I buy this. My main issue is, we get 30 maybe 45 seconds possibly even up to a minute of brass playing then we turn it over to the percussion which, to me, causes the piece to become segmented and uncoordinated. Your ballad argument isn't valid either as on far too many occasions, the brass is playing a beautiful ballad while the percussion is jamming away to see how many notes they can play. It totally ruins the moment. It seems that percussion writing is competing with, not complementing, the brass writing. THAT is the WGI influence on full display.

I see your points, but I was specifically responding to the false panic that Brass is somehow on the verge of being underemphasized because of battery, which is simply, blatantly not true, no matter how musical or not we find specific drum features. I mentioned ballads because they’re a clear example of designers routinely giving an entire movement of the show to brass, pit notwithstanding. Percussion features are features, not entire movements. Ballads are brass movements, on top of which we also get additional brass features nowadays that are designed to display technique (and these brass features again exclude battery, typically). In terms of musical focus, battery writing just does not compare. The fear that brass is somehow taking a backseat to battery feels more like a misplaced desire for brass to retain more focus than it already has under the mild threat of percussion having an extra feature per show.

You’re both concerned with the quality of the drum features, and I agree with that, but the quality of the book would come into play no matter how big or small the features were and no matter how prominent or not the drumline was. It doesn’t change that this is ultimately a brass-focused musical activity at the end of the day, IMHO. 

[Rocketman]

6 hours ago, Cappybara said:

 It is very difficult to introduce a drum break that isn't absolutely jarring in flow to the rest of the show. The writing of this era is certainly more complex and difficult than in years past, but at what cost? 

YES! Most of todays percussion books (IMO) appear to be an exercise in "how many notes can we possibly squeeze into this show" as opposed to let's write a book that is musical. I find the lack of musicality in todays percussion writing to be very disappointing. 

[PRomoter]

I think what we are noticing is more of a tendency for corps to avoid playing, because if you don’t play you can’t lose points if the rest of the playing is really good. You can’t just have a John Cage show, so battery and front ensemble fill the void. That’s mostly what I see. Those of you who frequent the PR thread might remember my timing how much time the brass played over the entirety of their shows last year. Compare the playing time now to 10-15 years ago and see how much this has changed. It is very noticeable even without a stopwatch. Let’s just pin it on Star of Indiana. They aren’t around anymore to argue with us. It’s their fault. (Dusting off hands and walking away)

[wilme861]

36 minutes ago, Rocketman said:

YES! Most of todays percussion books (IMO) appear to be an exercise in "how many notes can we possibly squeeze into this show" as opposed to let's write a book that is musical. I find the lack of musicality in todays percussion writing to be very disappointing. 

100% disagree honestly. I believe DCI and WGI percussion groups today play the most difficult and musical books they have ever played.

[Mello Dude]

12 minutes ago, wilme861 said:

100% disagree honestly. I believe DCI and WGI percussion groups today play the most difficult and musical books they have ever played.

Have to disagree.