Per the California Attorney General Vanguard is operating illegally as a non profit

[scheherazadesghost]

2 hours ago, OldSnareDrummer said:

Been wondering about that, too. Then again, accountability in anything these days is pretty rare. 

They are accountable to their stakeholders; and because they don't currently have "members," the alum are a crucial group of stakeholders. Along with staff, board, community, funders, partnerships, donors, etc. More: https://nonprofitquarterly.org/who-are-stakeholders-and-why-do-they-matter/

"Ethics—Promoting Equitable Power Dynamics. The nonprofit sector is rooted in relational accountability. It fosters trust in civil society while also being dependent upon the public’s trust to remain viable.⁵ However, business pressures can sometimes cause nonprofit organizations to lose sight of this, resulting in mission creep and abandoning of essential programs that cannot pay for themselves. As Nonprofit Quarterly’s editors have described, explicitly identifying stakeholders is an effective way to counter such pressures, because it brings ethics and relational accountability to the forefront of organizational decision making.⁶ It ensures that those with the least power have a meaningful voice and equitable opportunities to advance their interests."

Another danger of having so few NP pros among the staff. Stuff like this is fundamental to successful NPs. I've already spoken to VMAPA's mission creep in previous commentary, but the "abandoning of essential programs that cannot pay for themselves" needs no further explanation. I've seen it countless times before and competed for funding against NPs and other grant applicants who are clearly stuck in that way.

[KVG_DC]

2 hours ago, scheherazadesghost said:

I'll just leave this here: https://rec.arts.marching.drumcorps.narkive.com/gbcqistZ/scv-news-volunteer-accused-of-embezzling-from-bingo-losses-estimated-50-000

That's a blast from the past.  [looks at the poster's name for that blurb]

[JimF-LowBari]

20 minutes ago, KVG_DC said:

That's a blast from the past.  [looks at the poster's name for that blurb]

She didn’t miss much when it came to groups or people getting the shaft. With all her problems she did seem to care in getting the word out.

What I noticed was 2006 Bingo revenue about 1 million and 62% of budget. And bingo four times a week. So about 5k a night.
When this mess started one of the things management proposed to raise more money was another Bingo game. 🤔

Edited May 6, 2023 by JimF-LowBari

[rjohn76]

I don't want to minimize the importance of keeping the organization in good standing from a legal standpoint, but it's extremely common in California for nonprofits to fall out of good standing with the more stringent requirements the state has in place.  There's over 33,000 "charity registrations" in California that are currently "delinquent", including some organizations that are of much higher profile than SCV.  Obviously some of those delinquent registrations tie back to organizations that are now defunct or disbanded, but a quite a few belong to organizations that are still functioning in some capacity.  Most of those that are still functioning will work to get their registration corrected at some point and restored to good standing.  It's not an insurmountable task, but does require some work to get it done and corrected.  Absent evidence of criminal/nefarious actions, I don't see anyone going to jail over their current predicament.

Also have to add that bingo/gaming is still an extremely common source of funding/fundraising for nonprofits in many parts of the country.  When I look at the organizations in my area that run regular bingo games, it runs a wide gamut from church groups, the Lion's Club, and even the local 4th of July Fireworks Committee.  Assuming that all guidelines are currently being followed from the perspective of the IRS and state/local government, utilizing gaming to fund a portion of the budget shouldn't be dismissed based solely on previous transgressions.  Of course it would be great for the organization to diversify their sources of funding, but that's a larger topic that quite honestly the entire marching arts activity can work to improve upon.

Edited May 7, 2023 by rjohn76
Missing word

[phd-student-TTU]

3 hours ago, rjohn76 said:

I don't want to minimize the importance of keeping the organization in good standing from a legal standpoint, but it's extremely common in California for nonprofits to fall out of good standing with the more stringent requirements the state has in place.  There's over 33,000 "charity registrations" in California that are currently "delinquent", including some organizations that are of much higher profile than SCV.  Obviously some of those delinquent registrations tie back to organizations that are now defunct or disbanded, but a quite a few belong to organizations that are still functioning in some capacity.  Most of those that are still functioning will work to get their registration corrected at some point and restored to good standing.  It's not an insurmountable task, but does require some work to get it done and corrected.  Absent evidence of criminal/nefarious actions, I don't see anyone going to jail over their current predicament.

Also have to add that bingo/gaming is still an extremely common source of funding/fundraising for nonprofits in many parts of the country.  When I look at the organizations in my area that run regular bingo games, it runs a wide gamut from church groups, the Lion's Club, and even the local 4th of July Fireworks Committee.  Assuming that all guidelines are currently being followed from the perspective of the IRS and state/local government, utilizing gaming to fund a portion of the budget shouldn't be dismissed based solely on previous transgressions.  Of course it would be great for the organization to diversify their sources of funding, but that's a larger topic that quite honestly the entire marching arts activity can work to improve upon.

Nefarious intent doesn’t mean anything if you continued to do things you weren’t legally allowed to. Still illegal. 

[Eustis]

Just swooped in here after only paying marginal attention to the activity for a good long while. Very disappointed to read this news about one of DCI's founding corps. By the sustained quality of their on-field products (up until recently), one would have had to believe that SCV was a very well run organization; this news causes me to believe (and apologies for speculating) that something well beyond simple non-profit status delinquency is involved. There has to be some very good (or bad) reason why audits weren't filed and the fee paid; and it's difficult to believe it was merely administrative oversight.

Having said that, any organization can live or die by its reputation, especially in a community and an activity that is as small and as niche as competitive junior drum corps. Honesty and transparency in disclosure of information, most especially around the failures within the organization and efforts to prevent recurrence, would go a long way towards maintaining (or restoring) the organization's reputation, and in this case, help return the corps to the field at the earliest opportunity. I'm not sure from what I've read here that that is how things are being handled, so as a latecomer, please correct me if I'm wrong on that point.

[scheherazadesghost]

21 hours ago, rjohn76 said:

I don't want to minimize the importance of keeping the organization in good standing from a legal standpoint, but it's extremely common in California for nonprofits to fall out of good standing with the more stringent requirements the state has in place.  There's over 33,000 "charity registrations" in California that are currently "delinquent", including some organizations that are of much higher profile than SCV.  Obviously some of those delinquent registrations tie back to organizations that are now defunct or disbanded, but a quite a few belong to organizations that are still functioning in some capacity.  Most of those that are still functioning will work to get their registration corrected at some point and restored to good standing.  It's not an insurmountable task, but does require some work to get it done and corrected.  Absent evidence of criminal/nefarious actions, I don't see anyone going to jail over their current predicament.

I've stated before that the delinquency status is more common than I'd expected. The DOJ's website, and the letter sent to VMAPA both outline repercussions of not correcting the delinquency, which can include board and leadership culpability directly. However, the DOJ and other groups provide countless tools for correcting it. They want to help orgs.

It's not insurmountable at all. It all depends on the state of the books, which we'll likely never know. But when alum professionals look through the 990s and and are flagged by the state of the audits, in combo with patchy communications for the org, what are we supposed to do? The other alum are chatting away in a closed Fb group...... or absent entirely.

21 hours ago, rjohn76 said:

Also have to add that bingo/gaming is still an extremely common source of funding/fundraising for nonprofits in many parts of the country.  When I look at the organizations in my area that run regular bingo games, it runs a wide gamut from church groups, the Lion's Club, and even the local 4th of July Fireworks Committee. 

Are these youth education institutions? Even churches can get away with gambling fundraising, but I've literally never seen another successful youth arts np outside of drum corps leverage gambling for funds.

I've provided resources earlier in the thread that explain why so many other youth education nps avoid this revenue source. They also explain why some nps still use bingo. This isn't just some angry alum opinion, it's a professional one that's shared across the np space. Your revenue sources ideally align with your mission.  In what way does gambling align with VMAPA's mission? Until they can answer that, they'll be stuck with the regular drum corps funders.  If they answer it expertly, they may be able to convince new funders, but it'll be a shlogg. Ultimately the response from such discriminating funders will likely be, "if bingo is so lucrative, then why do you need me?" and they'll bounce.

However, I hope it's understood that I marched during the bingo theft years and that also plays largely into my advocacy now.

21 hours ago, rjohn76 said:

Assuming that all guidelines are currently being followed from the perspective of the IRS and state/local government, utilizing gaming to fund a portion of the budget shouldn't be dismissed based solely on previous transgressions.  Of course it would be great for the organization to diversify their sources of funding, but that's a larger topic that quite honestly the entire marching arts activity can work to improve upon.

Bingo is too lucrative to go anywhere. So I promise it won't. I only argue against it because I'm the sole professional voice willing to do so.

But that's part of the problem. It's lucrativeness is super attractive to foul play. Mix that in with lax oversight and what do you get? The amount of money changing hands in that operation is closer to $15 mil/yr and the director is living in Hawaii collecting a salary. One word from me: How?

I welcome VMAPA to continue to play with fire though I guess cause I can't do anything about it. Perhaps if I trusted leadership's explanations to diversify revenue I'd be a little more forgiving about bingo revenue, but my trust is shot and several aspects of the business are red flagging me.

I appreciate trying to help defend VMAPA against criticism, but let's say all the money aside gets ironed out perfectly. Excellent. However, the other issues addressed in this thread still lead me to believe they aren't quite ready to adequately care for young members again yet. If they start up again, and I start getting new credible alum reports of financial or org mismanagement, abuse, medical neglect, or harassment, then wild horses won't be able to stop my advocacy.

Edited May 8, 2023 by scheherazadesghost
typo

[rjohn76]

3 hours ago, phd-student-TTU said:

Nefarious intent doesn’t mean anything if you continued to do things you weren’t legally allowed to. Still illegal. 

Maybe I missed something in the 43 previous pages, but this thread was largely about the failure to file necessary paperwork with the CA Registry of Charitable Trusts.  There are monetary penalties/fees that can be assessed for failure to meet these filing requirements, but nobody is going to jail for failing to file paperwork.  Unless the failure to file the paperwork was part of a larger intentional effort to somehow commit a criminal act and a larger investigation ensues, the "delinquent" status in CA isn't that significant in the grand scheme of things.  And as far as I can see based on public IRS lookup tools, the organization remains in good standing with the IRS.  

[scheherazadesghost]

16 minutes ago, rjohn76 said:

Maybe I missed something in the 43 previous pages, but this thread was largely about the failure to file necessary paperwork with the CA Registry of Charitable Trusts.  There are monetary penalties/fees that can be assessed for failure to meet these filing requirements, but nobody is going to jail for failing to file paperwork. 

  This makes me nervous, cause don't nobody want fellow alumni in jail:

On 4/15/2023 at 12:49 AM, Richard Lesher said:

This letter dated Sept 2021 clearly outlines liabilities:

"Directors, trustees, officers and return preparers responsible for failure to timely file these reports are also personally liable for payment of late fees.

PLEASE NOTE: Charitable assets cannot be used to pay these avoidable costs [late fees.] Accordingly, directors, trustees, officers and return preparers responsible for failure to timely file the above-described report(s) are personally liable for payment of all penalties, interest, and other costs incurred to restore exempt status."

Now, all of this could be happening. I genuinely hope it is. But my trust is shot and neither the DOJ nor VMAPA are communicating about it. So, all I can do is sit here with public documents in hand and ask the questions... hoping for an answer...

16 minutes ago, rjohn76 said:

Unless the failure to file the paperwork was part of a larger intentional effort to somehow commit a criminal act and a larger investigation ensues, the "delinquent" status in CA isn't that significant in the grand scheme of things.  And as far as I can see based on public IRS lookup tools, the organization remains in good standing with the IRS.  

Yes, thank goodness they never lost state or federal tax exempt status.

But they failed to either complete or file required audits, despite telling alum they conduct them every year. So which is it? That's not good for a number of reasons. And even if they can fix it, wouldn't you think that would necessitate some kind of changeover of leadership roles? So the ones who "forgot" to do required paperwork don't "forget" again? At least do some kind of training or compliance to show they've changed their ways and those changes have been incorporated into institutional knowledge permanently....

[JimF-LowBari]

Regarding who can run Bingo believe it depends on state laws. For PA we have nonprofits and for profit groups running. Difference is if taxes are paid on the profits.

My area used to have multiple groups running games and then a for profit company basically ran a bunch out of business. The nonprofits would run on different nights of the week so they wouldn’t cut into each others business. The for profit company ran on those nights and had higher payout.

What ended up killing everyone’s Bingo was when they had to go nonsmoking. Surprised how many people would play Bingo just so they could smoke in public. Then again I helped at my corps Bingo and would go home with car windows open in 10 degrees because I stunk like a used Marlboro.

Edited May 7, 2023 by JimF-LowBari