ContraFart Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 Just now, Vuitton said: Did you not see where I said (re: props and electronics): "I realize this is a small piece of the problem, but everything adds up." Let's look facts in the face - this activity isn't as popular as it was back in the 70s, 80s or 90s. When I marched it seemed everyone in Madison knew who the Madison Scouts were. There are so many other activities nowadays. There are so many other places to give money to. We are in a different age - no one I knew had a computer in the 80s, we didn't have social media, we weren't in the digital and electronic age. There's not much more corps can do to increase their revenue - there's just not. Therefore, THE solution is cutting costs. I work in finance. I help people with budgeting. I don't say, "Oh, Starbucks is only 2.6% of your budget, don't worry about it." I say, "Stop spending money at Starbucks." Every single expense, how great or small, adds up. Starbucks is a publicly traded company beholden to its shareholders. They have a fiduciary responsibility to cut the 2.6% to get maximum return. But they are already operating at a profit. If you think that there is nothing corps can do to increase revenue, then we have already lost the war and should just wait for the activity to die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vuitton Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 (edited) 8 minutes ago, ContraFart said: but what would those cuts really do other than hurt the product? You shave 3% off the cost, but do nothing to enhance revenue? This entire argument is based on the wrong premise. Your entire argument about increasing revenue is the wrong premise. If it were possible they would be doing it. Since you seem to be so versed in economics then tell us how they should increase their revenue. Edited October 14, 2023 by Vuitton 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vuitton Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 (edited) 7 minutes ago, ContraFart said: If you think that there is nothing corps can do to increase revenue, then we have already lost the war and should just wait for the activity to die. It IS dying. It's BEEN dying since the 70s. Now it's death is really excellerating. I've been paying attention. Anyone who thinks this is isolated to just Vanguard or Cadets is in absolute ignorant bliss. We are at the end here. Edited October 14, 2023 by Vuitton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KVG_DC Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 51 minutes ago, keystone3ply said: So I guess all of the potential 2024 Cadets are going to the Mandarins? Too soon? Sorry... Q: Do the corps' CEOs or EDs have any kind of business background? Or do they just operate with their 'heart' with their drum corps background? I just don't understand... Nah. Surf gonna come out totally ratchet this year! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vuitton Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 5 minutes ago, ContraFart said: Starbucks is a publicly traded company beholden to its shareholders. They have a fiduciary responsibility to cut the 2.6% to get maximum return. But they are already operating at a profit. I'm talking about clients of mine. When we do a budget review, I don't single out something as a small piece of the budget and tell them not to worry about it. If they are cash flow negative, we cut every #### thing we can, however small. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ContraFart Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 1 minute ago, Vuitton said: Corps are smart enough to know when to scale down? You're commenting on a thread about the Cadets not being able to field a corps in 2024. You've commented on a thread about Vanguard not being able to field a corps in 2023. CLEARLY neither of these corps knew when to scale down or cut costs. I'm talking about the top corps trying to win at all costs. They are the ones spending enormous amounts of money every year - staff, props, electronics, uniforms, travel, gas, etc... Again I say not every situation is the same. SCV was an organizational bleep show who lost compliance with the state and did not get their second bingo running. Ya maybe they made a mistake by bringing 2 corps out in 2022, but if they do come back as planned in 2024, their not touring in 2023 WAS the smart scale back. We still do not know the details of what happened with the Cadets, only speculation and rumors. Maybe there was a huge mistake made that cost them a lot of money, we do not know. As far as the corps trying to win at all costs. Music City had one of the largest staffs by number and tons of props. They had they same electronic rig as everyone else. They had brand new uniforms (again why people bring that up as a cost factor is beyond me because they are part of corps fees) and I think one of the longer tours. (I could be wrong on that). Are they trying to win at all costs? Or do those costs not add up to as much as people make them out to be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scheherazadesghost Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 I don't see drum corps BODs boasting the skillsets necessary to ethically and efficiently raise revenue using the np model correctly. I see bingo (not mission aligned), strange fundraising campaigns (ex: Cavies booze - also not mission aligned) and little to no actual sustainable large donor cultivation via standardized np development models. Little to no local partnership building and maintained. I simple to don't see it across the board... possibly a few sprinkles of it here or there, but not enough. They're falling back on what for-profit businesspeople think np fundraising is. This is the danger of letting for-profit folks run nps. They don't know the model and assume they can run an np like a for-profit. You simply can't do that and make it sustainable. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cixelsyd Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 50 minutes ago, ContraFart said: Why does this conversation always devolve into issues about cost, and revenue is ignored? Bob Cook tried to give this lesson 40 years ago and he was ignored. There needs to be innovation in the revenue model. Almost invariably, when "revenue" is brought up today, it is not revenue generated by drum corps programs. Instead, it is "revenue" from external sources. Oh, if we could just have more of other people's money, problem solved! There are a few examples of where a drum corps can generate revenue from related resources (like how Star of Indiana ran a bus company to put their assets to greater use; several other corps have done this too). CrownTickets. BD Entertainment. USBands. Not seeing opportunity for explosive growth in those established ventures. What innovations are you suggesting? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ContraFart Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 6 minutes ago, Vuitton said: Your entire argument about increasing revenue is the wrong premise. If it were possible they would be doing it. Since you seem to be so versed in economics then tell us how they should increase their revenue. Some corps are doing it. Colts, BD, Music City, Bluecoats, BAC all operate in the black. All on different backbones but they still are well run. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexL Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 The fact is, anyone trying to identify one single issue as the cause is wrong. The cost side needs to be addressed from multiple angles. Costs of the tour model (and not saying a regional model is necessarily the answer- the regional circuits already failed after all!), costs of the show production (including props\electronics), costs of labor and ever-ballooning staff numbers. No one of these things is a silver bullet, but corrections in all categories may be the difference between solvency and folding. Likewise, there are definitely questions on the revenue side. It can't be easy generating revenue from the corporate side when the people making those decisions are ever more concerned with their ROI when doling out sponsorship dollars. Alumni\fan revenue generation is certainly an area one could look at (including errors that have been made in pushing away fans over time), but that wouldn't change anything in the here and now and may take more time to change things than drum corps has. And the fact of the matter is, there may not be an actual answer. There may just be no way that this all maths out long-term. And that will be very sad for most of us who were impacted so positively by our experiences in drum corps. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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