BigW Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 I slept on some of this yesterday and seeing some of the replies, I'll try and shoot back some various thoughts. Adjudicators at any level are pretty experienced, well educated, thoughtful, and diligent folks. Those who aren't generally get shown the door. I know my share of the DCI level people. They're people I try and ask questions to and share things so I can be more thoughtful and insightful when I have the chance. They're good people and more than willing to share ideas. They're people I feel better for having known. Another aspect that's kind of been touched on but not nailed has been the percussive arts. The weight of them in modern DCI adjudication has dramatically increased, and that's justifiable. A lot more of the difficulty in the musical scores now is inherent in the Percussion ensemble. Better writing to underpin everything, the quality of the musicians and their musicianship all play a role. Most of the more difficult content melodically and harmonically rest on the Front Ensemble, and one has to give credit when it's deserved as it is. I'll throw this out- could someone win percussion at Semis and not make finals nowadays!? (Oakland Crusaders....) Could someone end up with a seventh-place percussion section and win the championship? (80-something Cadets, the graffiti in the one practice room at WCU about that was priceless...) Here's a loaded question: How much of all of this is to deal with the acoustics of the Championship venue? I've discussed this with someone who has a handle on that subject and the arranging has changed to try and get things to sound 'right' in that stadium. Just some more thoughts. I need to rest, I'll try and add more things in when I'm better rested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG984 Posted March 18 Author Share Posted March 18 1 hour ago, BigW said: I slept on some of this yesterday and seeing some of the replies, I'll try and shoot back some various thoughts. Adjudicators at any level are pretty experienced, well educated, thoughtful, and diligent folks. Those who aren't generally get shown the door. I know my share of the DCI level people. They're people I try and ask questions to and share things so I can be more thoughtful and insightful when I have the chance. They're good people and more than willing to share ideas. They're people I feel better for having known. Another aspect that's kind of been touched on but not nailed has been the percussive arts. The weight of them in modern DCI adjudication has dramatically increased, and that's justifiable. A lot more of the difficulty in the musical scores now is inherent in the Percussion ensemble. Better writing to underpin everything, the quality of the musicians and their musicianship all play a role. Most of the more difficult content melodically and harmonically rest on the Front Ensemble, and one has to give credit when it's deserved as it is. I'll throw this out- could someone win percussion at Semis and not make finals nowadays!? (Oakland Crusaders....) Could someone end up with a seventh-place percussion section and win the championship? (80-something Cadets, the graffiti in the one practice room at WCU about that was priceless...) Here's a loaded question: How much of all of this is to deal with the acoustics of the Championship venue? I've discussed this with someone who has a handle on that subject and the arranging has changed to try and get things to sound 'right' in that stadium. Just some more thoughts. I need to rest, I'll try and add more things in when I'm better rested. As the original author, the just of what I wrote was to point out something that has only been discussed rarely....in 6 short years (1994-2000) a 30 point emphasis on music in the scoring was eliminated. Today's scoring, not only is supposedly "equal", but if you look at the way things are now, you would be hard pressed to say that things are not slanted toward visual, and the changes in those 6 years were "railroaded" (and yes, accepted by the corps) by the visual community. Also, and I know there are those that will argue this, IMO today's musical books are quite fragmented, lacking in musical cohesion.....they are "demanding" in both percussion and brass, but that does not make them musical.........if the music is not fantastic (never mind good) standing still, that visual program is not going to fix it.....there are visual "gimmicks" galore, and frankly, many of the products come off as "10 lbs of s..t in a 5 lb bag". We have arrangers trying to reinvent the wheel, instead of transcribing great music, with complete musical statements. It is funny that you mentioned acoustics.....I stopped going to the "Oil Can" long ago for that reason........there is not an acoustic engineer known to man who can make drum corps sound good in there................and yes, I am getting "old"....lol 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Guns Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 (edited) NVM. Edited March 18 by Chief Guns Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cixelsyd Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 5 hours ago, BG984 said: As the original author, the just of what I wrote was to point out something that has only been discussed rarely....in 6 short years (1994-2000) a 30 point emphasis on music in the scoring was eliminated. Today's scoring, not only is supposedly "equal", but if you look at the way things are now, you would be hard pressed to say that things are not slanted toward visual, and the changes in those 6 years were "railroaded" (and yes, accepted by the corps) by the visual community. Also, and I know there are those that will argue this, IMO today's musical books are quite fragmented, lacking in musical cohesion.....they are "demanding" in both percussion and brass, but that does not make them musical.........if the music is not fantastic (never mind good) standing still, that visual program is not going to fix it.....there are visual "gimmicks" galore, and frankly, many of the products come off as "10 lbs of s..t in a 5 lb bag". We have arrangers trying to reinvent the wheel, instead of transcribing great music, with complete musical statements. It is funny that you mentioned acoustics.....I stopped going to the "Oil Can" long ago for that reason........there is not an acoustic engineer known to man who can make drum corps sound good in there................and yes, I am getting "old"....lol I have no quibble with this post. I would only add that even if the sheets had not changed 1994-2000, all the rest might have transpired anyway. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mello Dude Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 (edited) 1 hour ago, cixelsyd said: I have no quibble with this post. I would only add that even if the sheets had not changed 1994-2000, all the rest might have transpired anyway. I dunno about that. Corps that want to play the game follow the score. Writing music for visual vs visual written for the music. I will take the second every time. The first will be disjointed no matter what you do. Yes, I know some will say it's "so advanced and integrated now" that there is no line....to that I say nonsense. Edited March 18 by Mello Dude 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 10 hours ago, BigW said: I slept on some of this yesterday and seeing some of the replies, I'll try and shoot back some various thoughts. Adjudicators at any level are pretty experienced, well educated, thoughtful, and diligent folks. Those who aren't generally get shown the door. I know my share of the DCI level people. They're people I try and ask questions to and share things so I can be more thoughtful and insightful when I have the chance. They're good people and more than willing to share ideas. They're people I feel better for having known. Another aspect that's kind of been touched on but not nailed has been the percussive arts. The weight of them in modern DCI adjudication has dramatically increased, and that's justifiable. A lot more of the difficulty in the musical scores now is inherent in the Percussion ensemble. Better writing to underpin everything, the quality of the musicians and their musicianship all play a role. Most of the more difficult content melodically and harmonically rest on the Front Ensemble, and one has to give credit when it's deserved as it is. I'll throw this out- could someone win percussion at Semis and not make finals nowadays!? (Oakland Crusaders....) Could someone end up with a seventh-place percussion section and win the championship? (80-something Cadets, the graffiti in the one practice room at WCU about that was priceless...) Here's a loaded question: How much of all of this is to deal with the acoustics of the Championship venue? I've discussed this with someone who has a handle on that subject and the arranging has changed to try and get things to sound 'right' in that stadium. Just some more thoughts. I need to rest, I'll try and add more things in when I'm better rested. Crown in 13's percussion was i believe 6th,it was a concern all summer it could cost them the show. as for winning drums and not making finals.....the section would have be so incredible to have a shot, and given the depth of top lines now, not seeing it. i'd hope the percussion for that corps would boost MA and GE too. and yes arranging has changed for inside. the trick is making it work for the overwhelming majority of outside shows all summer and still inside for the end. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KVG_DC Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 While not "winning drums and not making finals" situations by far, last season had several lines punching above where their corps were placing. Cavies most notably. But Troopers too. Colts line early in the season was scoring real well too. The carryover from indoor and 'follow the instructor' effect seems to be part of this as well. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cixelsyd Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 2 hours ago, Mello Dude said: I dunno about that. Corps that want to play the game follow the score. Yes, but I think the issue there is what judges reward, not how many points are in each caption. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 2 hours ago, KVG_DC said: While not "winning drums and not making finals" situations by far, last season had several lines punching above where their corps were placing. Cavies most notably. But Troopers too. Colts line early in the season was scoring real well too. The carryover from indoor and 'follow the instructor' effect seems to be part of this as well. and drum judges aren't afraid to make a call. but with how the math is done, one caption's impacted on the overall is less likely to be a huge blow unless it's GE. Everyone loved to pile on Prosperie in 19 for calling the show in BD's favor, while totally ignoring the 3rd place (with a sub box in 4th) guard scores Bloo got. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 2 hours ago, cixelsyd said: Yes, but I think the issue there is what judges reward, not how many points are in each caption. and who creates the sheets? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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