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INTRODUCING DRUM CORPS EQUITY


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2 hours ago, scheherazadesghost said:

The core definition of equity, under the DEI lens rather than the financial one, doesn't change that much based on context. According to McKinsey & Company:

"Equity refers to fair treatment for all people, so that the norms, practices, and policies in place ensure identity is not predictive of opportunities or workplace outcomes. Equity differs from equality in a subtle but important way. While equality assumes that all people should be treated the same, equity takes into consideration a person’s unique circumstances, adjusting treatment accordingly so that the end result is equal."

Currently, one's identity is highly predictive of opportunities and workplace outcomes in drum corps. I imagine unwinding that is part of the vision here.

Not sure how much further this conversion can go honestly. Detractors will try to get this thread shut down, despite it appearing to be a survivor's best effort to improve adverse conditions they experienced firsthand in the activity.

i thought it was a good question with a great answer. Not sure why it fan the flames.

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19 minutes ago, Jeff Ream said:

i thought it was a good question with a great answer. Not sure why it fan the flames.

You don't recall our first interactions on this board regarding DEI ending in hidden comments and closure? Those were my first discussions here and were definitely too hot to handle apparently. Pepperidge Farm remembers.

Also, now-deleted comments on this thread were edging in the direction I indicated.

Jokes aside, I'd love for the community to have matured regarding their ability to have these discussions. They're important. 🙏🏽

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3 hours ago, scheherazadesghost said:

The core definition of equity, under the DEI lens rather than the financial one, doesn't change that much based on context. According to McKinsey & Company:

"Equity refers to fair treatment for all people, so that the norms, practices, and policies in place ensure identity is not predictive of opportunities or workplace outcomes. Equity differs from equality in a subtle but important way. While equality assumes that all people should be treated the same, equity takes into consideration a person’s unique circumstances, adjusting treatment accordingly so that the end result is equal."

Pardon me for underlining that last phrase... but that seems to be the crux of the matter.  Allow me to explain.

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Currently, one's identity is highly predictive of opportunities and workplace outcomes in drum corps. I imagine unwinding that is part of the vision here.

Sure - that sounds like a great goal, and one that I wholeheartedly support.

The method of pursuing that goal, however, matters.  Drum corps, like American culture, is based on the principle of equal opportunity.  When people are given a free (and ideally, fair) chance to work at something and keep most of what they earn in the process, they work harder and achieve more.  Recent times have seen the principle of equal outcomes (like the underlined phrase above suggests) presented as an alternative to equal opportunities.  

I cannot see "equal outcomes" working out in drum corps.  Competition would have to be removed from the activity.  How many of us would still be interested at that point?  And would we be as motivated to work at it under those conditions?

Quote

Not sure how much further this conversion can go honestly. Detractors will try to get this thread shut down, despite it appearing to be a survivor's best effort to improve adverse conditions they experienced firsthand in the activity.

Unfortunately, these topics are highly politicized in current events, so it is not surprising that a conversation might go off the rails.

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1 hour ago, cixelsyd said:

When people are given a free (and ideally, fair) chance

This is the liminal, challenging space that diversity experts work within. It is one that even you note as an ideal, and therefore not currently existent in most spaces.

Regarding competition, that is only one aspect of this activity. Workplaces are another that would benefit from this effort. Also, competing isn't, not should it be, one on one. When groups are competing, there is space for this work within the individual groups.

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I wished you well in another thread, still do, and you are being extremely unwise to promote any organization - or posting on social media - while a plaintiff in an active civil suit. 
 

Attorneys don’t play fair they play to win for their client!  2 of the 3 representing DCI and SOA are very formidable! They (outsourced) will scour the Internet and see your post promoting MASSIN. And in a couple more clicks they will see that besides being a whistle blower for abuse in our activity  they are also in favor of “anti-capitalism,” “anti-imperialism,” and “anti-colonialism.” What does that have to do with your case? Nothing, but that’s not the point. The point will be to link and paint you in an unsympathetic manner to a potential juror not aligned with MASSINs political viewpoint.  Depending on the district, judge, and attorneys, you may need a unanimous decision to win. 

Your attorney should have already told you all this. In all honesty, I wonder if you’re being exploited a second time to promote the agenda of others who don’t have your personal best interest in mind - but to promote a cause.

I understand this has been an awful experience and you take no joy in it. Who would!? But you must be strategic about it if you want to win. 

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Equality of opportunity? Yes.

That is why candidates audition for a finite number of spots.

Equity is simply quotas and affirmative action revisited.

Since this political topic has been allowed on this forum, I will voice my opinion.

Censor me if you will. 

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14 minutes ago, denverjohn said:

Equality of opportunity? Yes.

That is why candidates audition for a finite number of spots.

Equity is simply quotas and affirmative action revisited.

Since this political topic has been allowed on this forum, I will voice my opinion.

Censor me if you will. 

100%

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Posted (edited)

“…adjusting treatment accordingly so that the end result is equal.”

So - 12 way tie for first?  Cool 

Nobody gets cut?  Also cool. 300 members per corps. 

Words mean things. This is what the words say. 

Edited by HockeyDad
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40 minutes ago, HockeyDad said:

“…adjusting treatment accordingly so that the end result is equal.”

So - 12 way tie for first?  Cool 

No point in countering this with my personal view of the competitive aspect of this activity bc that's not the point.

As I mentioned in a previous comment, group competition =/= individual competition. Simply, you can have the former AND something closer to equity much more easily than the latter and equity. Further, superficially altering individual competition for limited membership and jobs =/= equity in auditioning, hiring, job succession and the policies and procedures that guide them. Equity is not one strategy. It, and the overall DEI approach, in good faith, make up an entire industry and field of praxis not easily explained here. Especially to anyone in this thread who may be approaching it in bad faith.

If you want to whittle down the entire industry and school of thought to "getting rid of group competition" this conversation won't get far.

I feel for anyone working for greater DEIBJ in this activity. I've done it in another field and... well... it can severely tax one's mental and physical health. It's one of the most charged and divisive subject matters in our country at the moment. Not easy work.

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