ekleve Posted May 22, 2006 Share Posted May 22, 2006 There is no question that the Bb's produce a darker sound and that they play better in tune. I'll agree that Bb is way easier to play in tune, but in NO reality do Bb horns have a darker sound! Quite the opposite in fact. They sound bright. The G horns have that fat dark sound that I love! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ekleve Posted May 22, 2006 Share Posted May 22, 2006 (edited) I'm no brass guy, and I'm definately no drum corps guy, but...if a high school/college marching band can play with instruments in different keys as well as some of them do, I just didn't see why anyone wouldn't want to try it. Everyone has different opinions of why both are an advantage over the other...but what if they just played both of em at the same time? What would that really sound like?...eh, I dono, I'm probably just running my mouth a little too much. I think the major problem with using both Bb and G at the same time is that the two keys are a minor third apart. Therefore, one of them would be playing in an awkward key at all times. You've got to use either one or the other. The only time I've ever seen both used at the same time is 2001 Glassmen. It was a G hornline with a Bb flugal horn solo and it worked beautifully. But they didn't really play at the same time. The flugal horn played his solo and then the horline came in with a completely different key. Amazing effect, but they didn't have to both coexist in the same concert key. Edited May 22, 2006 by ekleve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted May 22, 2006 Share Posted May 22, 2006 I think the major problem with using both Bb and G at the same time is that the two keys are a minor third apart. Therefore, one of them would be playing in an awkward key at all times. You've got to use either one or the other. With Westshoremen Alumni the people playing Bb had the wierd ###ed key. Think the Gs had no sharps or flats and the Bb players had three sharps and bunch of sharps all over the sheet music. :sshh: Man, was I glad I was playing a G Bari..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elphaba01 Posted May 22, 2006 Share Posted May 22, 2006 w/Stp: (sans stupid) I'd like to hear Madison try and play their opener from 89 on Bb. *shrug* "Madison Opener's:" How about 1974's, 1975's and/or 1976's Madison "Opener's" on 'Bb's? I think doing that would be just awful. Where's the beef? Elphaba WWW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburstall Posted May 22, 2006 Share Posted May 22, 2006 You can still buy G bugles from Dynasty. However, using them would be the kiss of death. G bugles sound different than Bb. That makes it harder for the judges to compare different lines. In a competitive environment, they need to decide which one sounds "better." There is no question that the Bb's produce a darker sound and that they play better in tune. So, 9 times out of 10, judges are going to say the Bb line sounds better. In terms of points, playing on G horns probably translates into a 0.5 to 1.0 point drop in the total score. I thought judges weren't suppose to compare corps against corps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tekneek Posted May 22, 2006 Author Share Posted May 22, 2006 I thought judges weren't suppose to compare corps against corps. I thought it was resolved years ago that judges do slot corps. Each corps is judged against the others that have already performed that day/evening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted May 22, 2006 Share Posted May 22, 2006 I thought it was resolved years ago that judges do slot corps. Each corps is judged against the others that have already performed that day/evening. Going back to my initial jdge training in the mid-70's...and it still holds true...a judge has to rank the corps in order of finish (on his/her own caption) and rate the corps (the spread between). They do this against the box standards today, but it is no different in concept than it ever was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vferrera Posted May 22, 2006 Share Posted May 22, 2006 I thought judges weren't suppose to compare corps against corps. Whether you directly compare corps A v. corps B or compare both to some idealized criterion, it should come out the same thing. Any rational judging system must obey the rule of transitivity (A>B and B>C implies A>C), otherwise the rankings are meaningless. It's just more efficient to compare each corps to a standard than to do all the pairwise comparisons. If you have to judge N corps in one night, then there would be N*(N-1)/2 pairwise comparisons. That's a lot of mental gymnastics. Easier just to compare each against a common rating scale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburstall Posted May 22, 2006 Share Posted May 22, 2006 I thought it was resolved years ago that judges do slot corps. Each corps is judged against the others that have already performed that day/evening. So basically corps are slotted to make the judging easier since they no longer have to do the mental gymnastics of who's the best corps...it's just "whoever performs last is the best" mentality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburstall Posted May 22, 2006 Share Posted May 22, 2006 Whether you directly compare corps A v. corps B or compare both to some idealized criterion, it should come out the same thing. Any rational judging system must obey the rule of transitivity (A>B and B>C implies A>C), otherwise the rankings are meaningless. It's just more efficient to compare each corps to a standard than to do all the pairwise comparisons. If you have to judge N corps in one night, then there would be N*(N-1)/2 pairwise comparisons. That's a lot of mental gymnastics. Easier just to compare each against a common rating scale. Vince, I ment what I said as tongue-in-cheek. How many of the posters have stated that judges AREN'T suppose to compare corps during judging? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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