mbiquad2001 Posted September 7, 2006 Share Posted September 7, 2006 When an Army would go off to war two hundred years ago, a fife and drum unit lead the way. The drum was slung over the shoulder and was very tilted, which required "traditional" snare grip. Now that drums are flat, there is no reason to play traditional grip at all, unless you like the look of it. Tilting the snares in modern drum corps makes physical sense for the player and is the original way a marching snare drummer played the instrument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwallace600 Posted September 7, 2006 Share Posted September 7, 2006 I kind of think those first harnesses didn't have the option to tilt, but that advantage in marching with a rack over a strap was too much to pass up. Maybe if the first racks had the tilt built in we wouldn't be having this discussion. Let me preface this by saying that I wasn't in the scene yet when the changeover began, but from talking to people who were, I think the idea that people had was that lines would just naturally all switch to playing matched since they would be ABLE to with harnesses. As someone pointed out earlier on this thread, playing matched before harnesses just wasn't really an option. So the real question is why do SO many lines still used traditional grip on flat drums when it makes no d*mn sense at all (and I make that statement as a snare drummer who plays traditional on a flat drum!) I have my opinion...I think that traditional grip is what set snare drummers apart, and without it they felt like tenor drummers whose drum made a "Rat-Tat" sound! But that is simply speculation on my part! Plus, ya gotta admit, traditional grip LOOKS way COOL! As for being easier to play on a tilted drum, logic dictates that is is, in fact, easier to do so with traditional grip. With the drum tilted, the left hand can make a much larger arc within the natural turning radius of the wrist...on a flat drum, you have to really work on the left hand turn to get more than about 30 degrees rotation. While you do need to adjust the angle of your right stick's travel, for most players this can be accomplished very easily since the vast majority of human beings are right-hand dominant. I've spent a little time thinking about this...can you tell? :P And what's the result of all of my pontification? My lines still play trad. grip on a flat drum. Why? I like it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kusankusho Posted September 7, 2006 Share Posted September 7, 2006 Match grip is a natural grip and from a bio-mechanical standpoint it makes more sense - the motion is exactly the same on both hands, etc. Traditional grip is - well - traditional, but also harder to do. Match grip is only harder if you're not used to it, but it's the more progressive way to play a flat drum. Tilting the drum makes it better adapted to the left hand rotation. So there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlamMan Posted September 7, 2006 Share Posted September 7, 2006 Let me preface this by saying that I wasn't in the scene yet when the changeover began, but from talking to people who were, I think the idea that people had was that lines would just naturally all switch to playing matched since they would be ABLE to with harnesses. As someone pointed out earlier on this thread, playing matched before harnesses just wasn't really an option.So the real question is why do SO many lines still used traditional grip on flat drums when it makes no d*mn sense at all (and I make that statement as a snare drummer who plays traditional on a flat drum!) I have my opinion...I think that traditional grip is what set snare drummers apart, and without it they felt like tenor drummers whose drum made a "Rat-Tat" sound! But that is simply speculation on my part! Plus, ya gotta admit, traditional grip LOOKS way COOL! As for being easier to play on a tilted drum, logic dictates that is is, in fact, easier to do so with traditional grip. With the drum tilted, the left hand can make a much larger arc within the natural turning radius of the wrist...on a flat drum, you have to really work on the left hand turn to get more than about 30 degrees rotation. While you do need to adjust the angle of your right stick's travel, for most players this can be accomplished very easily since the vast majority of human beings are right-hand dominant. I've spent a little time thinking about this...can you tell? :P And what's the result of all of my pontification? My lines still play trad. grip on a flat drum. Why? I like it. Actually, the reason matched grip became popular around 1979 was the Santa Clara Vanguard. They switched to matched grip & won a couple of drum titles...so everyone else went matched. Personally, I much prefer traditional grip. I had to play matched grip in 1979 & was not happy about it. Heck, even Madison played matched grip in 1983. Thankfully, everyone has returned to traditional...which is the way the snare drum was meant to be played. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonnyboy Posted September 8, 2006 Share Posted September 8, 2006 The snare tilt is a gimmick. Too old school for me. I played snare for 10 years & playing a tilted snare drum is more difficult to me. Also, watching a snare line with tilted snares isn't as pleasing to me..I mean thee is no symmetry to the style. To me snare tilt = marching band No symmetry with a tilted snare? If you want symmetry drop tradtional grip and go matched. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storkysr Posted September 8, 2006 Share Posted September 8, 2006 (edited) Actually, the reason matched grip became popular around 1979 was the Santa Clara Vanguard. They switched to matched grip & won a couple of drum titles...so everyone else went matched. Personally, I much prefer traditional grip. I had to play matched grip in 1979 & was not happy about it. Heck, even Madison played matched grip in 1983.Thankfully, everyone has returned to traditional...which is the way the snare drum was meant to be played. Heck, I even saw the Marine D&B Corps playing matched in the early 90's. I too am glad that traditional has returned. Not too hot on the tilt yet but it does make sense. Took me 25 years to get accustomed to the level snares. We were pioneers of sorts in that regard (at least in Sr Corps) when in 1978 the Crusaders used two straps and fabricated a padded plate as a harness. That was when I was a young and adventurous caption head (head instructor in those days). Played the single strap tilt for the 15 years prior to that, however. Edited September 8, 2006 by Storkysr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xXDSFLXx Posted September 8, 2006 Share Posted September 8, 2006 Obviously, the traditional grip was started way back, in the Civil War days, if not even MORE way back when. i find to be more relaxing on the left hand. I guess its just up the percussion instructor's preference whether to use it or not. It may look weird, but I personally find it very cool. If you want into more details about it, it is more relaxing on the muscles of the left forearm and wrist to play higher and angle the stick downward. Also, it gives a more relaxed feel to the right arm as well. When you play tradish on a flat drum, you gotta stick that right elbow out in order to get the right technique to play it. But when using a tilted drum, that right elbow is relaxed but yet, you can still use that power from your right arm for those accents and shots. Like I said, its a personal opinion, I find it very relaxing. Most of the schools and even the Indepedent line I teach here in So Cal are using the tilted snare "gimmick". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kjac18 Posted September 11, 2006 Share Posted September 11, 2006 IMO it looks better with SCV but cavies sure are pulling it off with ease! the bret kuhn sound was getting alittle bland, tilt or no its all cool, but i think the tilt would be fun since i've never marched like that before, Jim cassella = tilted snares! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yellowbusredux Posted September 11, 2006 Share Posted September 11, 2006 SCV snarelines under Murray Gusseck (Casella was arranger, & caption head for years until becoming just their arranger) looked fine to me with the titlt, and sounded even better. As far as quality of sound coming from a drumline = SCV had one of the best for all those years, if not THE best. Heck, they even won High Percussion in 2004 with an absolutley smokin snareline, and the whole drumline played some of the most musical drum books ever during the Gusseck/Casella years. Actually, Murray mentioned in a couple of interviews how it wasn't some long, super thought-out, detailed plan when they went with the tilt, and he wasn't even positive if it was something he thought up or Chip Webster thought up in passing one day (Chip Webster, former SCV snare, actually helped teach the snares that first year they went with the tilt and was with the staff for 2 or 3 seasons). Someone mentioned it, they tried it out, and it worked. It made sense, makes sense, they tried it, it worked for them, they were great at teaching with that style, and they had great success with it. Their staff always found it interesting how so many people over-analyzed the tilt, or grip, or whatever. They were all about getting kids to perform MUSIC at a high level, and to teach them techniques that had a lot of transfer value to other types of drums and other types of music besides drum corps (it's intersting how many drummers from SCV snare and tenor lines have gone on to become amazing drum-set players, composers, and all-around percussionists, using quite a bit of the techniques and education they got from their time playing in those lines). They were about producing results...if something worked and made sense, they went with it. And that's what it's all about, right? Two of the main drum techs at Cavies, both of whom marched under Gusseck and Cassella at SCV during those years, joined the Cavies staff in '06. Since they were taught using that style (in particular the snare tilt), and since they are running the battery program now, it makes sense that they would try it out there as well. It seemed to work just fine, and I look forward to seeing the Cavies percussion program grow, mature, and progress under them, Anconna, and Casella over the next few seasons. Cool stuff! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSU GRAD 82 Posted September 11, 2006 Author Share Posted September 11, 2006 The snare tilt is a gimmick. Too old school for me. I played snare for 10 years & playing a tilted snare drum is more difficult to me. Also, watching a snare line with tilted snares isn't as pleasing to me..I mean thee is no symmetry to the style. To me snare tilt = marching band Snare tilt = Black college and high school marching band percussion sections with straps and leg rests........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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