looking into colleges

[PhantomR]

I think John Mayer is rather good, compared to the other artists we hear today. But, to each his own.

yes, to each there own.

I still believe he's terrible.

you don't.

agree to disagree.

:)

~>conner

[MikeD]

any suggestions for some one in the northeast?

A few....

UMass

West Chester

Temple

The College of New Jersey

Montclair State U

Ithaca

Boston U

Boston College

UConn

[ssorrell]

Also, do you want a life?

Do you want your weekends free?

If the answer to either of those questions is "yes", then don't go into Music Ed!

What you learn in your average college marching band is nothing compared to what you will learn in just one season with a Divison 1 DCI, or even a top DCA corp. And remeber, most directors of top flight high school marching bands will hire caption specialist to filll in the gaps in his or her knowledge anyway.

Two points...

1. Why are you even comparing a college education to drum corps? There's a lot more to teaching band (remember you might even be teaching at the beginning or intermediate level) than what you can learn in one or multiple seasons of drum corps.

2. What difference does it make what top band directors do? How many students straight out of college will get one of those top school band jobs? If we're giving advice to someone looking for a good school to get their college education, how does this help?

Again, as I said earlier and others have said also, you can get a great education whether you attend JSU, Troy, UNA, or Montevallo. You can get an equally great education at Auburn, Alabama, Georgia, or FSU. Your education is what you make of it.

[CloudHype]

If the answer to either of those questions is "yes", then don't go into Music Ed!

Amen

There is some schools that are a little rougher.

I'll use UNA for example...

No joke... Loyd has a tick book. You tick, that's 15 minutes spent doing something. You will also have at least one exhibition (mostly 2) every weekend. Football team is on the road... you will be doing exhibitions galore.

Now I will say (JSU people may want to not look), UNA is clean (cleanest in the state)as can be for a college band. They put the time in, that's why. Also, there has been some good directors to come out of there as of late.

Now... Where I went.

SEC school (230 in the band), We had 3 two hour practices a week, we learned 3 shows (new every two weeks) plus pregame. The band director had no tick book, but he was fantastic at motivation (the best I've ever seen) and he could make drunk college kids quite without ever rasing his voice. We had 0 exhibitions in 2 years and the "extra" playing was very minimal. I had free weekends when the band didn't travel to an away game.

This is not a bash on UNA (the marching band is really good), I'm actually going to audition there. I'm old and have no life PLUS I benifit from a strict enviorment, you might too. However, I could care less about marching college, with me being a drill writer PLUS being an instructor for the past 5 years.

You have questions, P.M. me, I know people at most Universities and Colleges in our area and have a good feel for the vibes of the band members and faculty.

[crh5]

And a lot of them aren't doing the best they can- I'm in a college marching band that could be much better if some simple changes were made to rehearsal procedure, etc (and no, I'm not talking about making it like drum corps . . . that's not what it's supposed to be . . . but that doesn't mean it's okay to sound awful all season and never address it).

I respect what they do (I'm in one! I know! I understand), and school spirit is great, I just don't think that college marching band should factor in very heavily to where you go to get a music education degree, especially if you have drum corps experience.

>>

Which is why it is really important to take the time for site visits to any school you are considering...not just to see a performance, but to see a rehearsal in any of the ensembles you may play in someday...from marching band to wind ensemble to chamber groups if possible. When my daughter began the audition process, she basically went to each school she was considering at least twice. She went once for a lesson with the studio instructor to make sure it would be a "fit" and she also worked out a way to shadow another student from that studio for other times during that same day. She was shadowing a junior music ed student, so she spent time in a brass tech class, as well as a conducting class in addition to the ensemble rehearsal. Then she went back a few months later for the audition. She did this with three schools, and that process really made her end decision a no brainer for her, and she has been exceedingly happy where she ended up. She just had a really great basis for comparison of the schools. It was time consuming to go to each place a few times, but it was well worth it in the end.

[The Tsar]

I was actually planning on double majoring in Composition AND Education. My trumpet professor always told me that Dr. Dunnigan pretty much expects all music ed majors to do Chiefs at some point, and if you don't he won't be happy. Some crap like that. Anyway, that wasn't why I dropped the Education degree (I'm doing only Composition now) but because doing both would have killed me completely as far as time commitment, and I would probably come out a crappy composer, which is what I want to focus on fully. I should mention that too for the OP, music education programs are A LOT of work. Not that this is a bad thing of course, just want to make a note of that.

FWIW...I majored in Music Education (heh...for all three degrees now), and I never marched Chiefs.

[tpt43]

Amen

There is some schools that are a little rougher.

I'll use UNA for example...

No joke... Loyd has a tick book. You tick, that's 15 minutes spent doing something. You will also have at least one exhibition (mostly 2) every weekend. Football team is on the road... you will be doing exhibitions galore.

Now I will say (JSU people may want to not look), UNA is clean (cleanest in the state)as can be for a college band. They put the time in, that's why. Also, there has been some good directors to come out of there as of late.

Now... Where I went.

SEC school (230 in the band), We had 3 two hour practices a week, we learned 3 shows (new every two weeks) plus pregame. The band director had no tick book, but he was fantastic at motivation (the best I've ever seen) and he could make drunk college kids quite without ever rasing his voice. We had 0 exhibitions in 2 years and the "extra" playing was very minimal. I had free weekends when the band didn't travel to an away game.

This is not a bash on UNA (the marching band is really good), I'm actually going to audition there. I'm old and have no life PLUS I benifit from a strict enviorment, you might too. However, I could care less about marching college, with me being a drill writer PLUS being an instructor for the past 5 years.

You have questions, P.M. me, I know people at most Universities and Colleges in our area and have a good feel for the vibes of the band members and faculty.

I would have to agree the UNA is a "clean" band. Clean doesn't always mean exciting.

[ChicagoFan]

As long as you're in Alabama, you might consider Birmingham-Southern (my undergrad alma mater). It's a small, liberal arts college that is consistently ranked as one of the finest in the country and, music has always been one of its strongest majors. The city of Birmingham also offers opportunites that you won't find in the small towns of Troy, Jacksonville and Montevallo.

I'll also put in a plug for my other alma mater, Northwestern University. Not only is the music school first rate but the university itself is recognized as one of the best in the nation. Muisc education, theory, composition and musicology are all strong at NU. The School of Music has a conservatory-like atmosphere within the confines of a major university -- the best of both worlds.

Having given you a couple of reccomendations, I'll stress what others have pointed out -- it's important that you make a decision that's right for YOU, your personality and your needs. Not every school is a perfect fit for every student. Keep in mind that many of the larger, "big name" institutions anually enroll hundreds of music majors and the atmosphere can be extremely cut-throat and competitive. If you're a great player who thrives on competition you'd probably do well at a UCLA, Ohio State, Indiana, etc. Then again, you always run the risk of getting lost in the crowd. On the other hand, smaller schools can offer a great deal of individual instruction and one-on-one familiarity with professors and fellow students that simply aren't available at larger institutions.

[Danielle]

While my taxes are probably a bit higher, I live in NY (think anything but Downstate near NYC and LI) and have a brand new car, 3 bedroom remodeled apartment, and just got a new laptop and furniture on a first year teacher salary. Not to mention NY State teacher Retirement System is pretty solid, speaking from the experience of having my father retire.

And if you want to teach marching band, go tech/volunteer/work with HS bands and learn there. I know many could care less if your college had a marching band or not.

[The Oz]

Background: My daughter is a sophomore music performance and education dual major at Ithaca College. On bassoon. She was also a very credible saxophone player in secondary school. She also auditioned at Syracuse and Delaware. She also considered, but did not audition at, Penn State, West Chester, and James Madison University. She was accepted at all three schools she auditioned at and received scholarship offers from all three. She chose Ithaca because of the bassoon professor, the education and performance dual major, its bias towards the classical repertoire, and its heritage as a music conservatory. It has a somewhat unique balance between a four-year college and a conservatory. On the down side, it is not cheap. And Ithaca winters can be tough if you’re not used to a real winter.

These are the lessons we learned while deciding on where she would attend college:

- It is very difficult to find rankings of music schools. (As, for example, US News and World Reports does for universities in general.) I could not find any. And as for finding rankings of music education programs … good luck.

- You really have to consider value for money. You will likely get a better education at Harvard or Stanford than at West Chester University of Pennsylvania. But the greatest number of music educators in the Southeast Pennsylvania/New Jersey/Delaware area come from WCU. Is it worth the additional $25,000 per year to go to Harvard for music education? Not if you’re my child.

- If you’re considering music performance at all, you should give high value to the instrumental professor you will be living with for the next four years.

- Be honest about your playing ability. You’ll have to audition. Have you made any honors bands in your county or state? If not, you’ll be in the lower half of the incoming class at most music schools. Music at the college level is competitive. Be prepared to compete. And practice, practice, practice. (At Ithaca, the music department does not like to give part-time jobs to music students. They have no free time.)

- Berklee may not be the best choice for music education. That comes from a Berklee student (to my daughter, in person).

- As others have said, the odds of a major high school position being filled by a new grad are really, really poor. And a degree from Harvard isn’t going to change that. Be honest about your career path. You’ll have to start small.

- As much as it pains me to say this, MikeD’s list is pretty good. I’d add UDelaware. Heidi Sarver’s marching band is better than most.

- State schools are more geared to turning out teachers than private schools. Although, and Ithaca is a good example, many private schools have solid reputations for their music education program.

- If you want to teach near home, you’ll need teaching certification in that state. Some states are snooty about granting teaching certifications to out of state graduates.

- I’d be hard pressed to recommend that you stray too far from home for music education. I don’t see the value in the added cost and aggravation. And I wouldn’t give too much weight to the marching band program. You need to learn to teach, not to march.