Is Drum Corps "School?"

[Mr. Bill]

I think there is an issue here of organizations proclaiming themselves to be university-like institutions. It makes me think of the movie Malice when Alec Baldwin's character proclaims "I am God." Just because his character (a doctor) has the power of giving and taking life, the power to decide who lives and who dies, does not make him God. There are many things that teach us many things. That doesn't make them schools.

Here's another example; when I was three, I stuck the butt end of a fork in an electrical socket. I learned never to do that again. That didn't make me a student. The house that zapped me was not a teacher. So, I maintain that there is a difference.

You are missing the point here. Teacher/student relationships imply the willing and purposeful transfer of knowledge from one who has it to another that does not have it. The house did not impart knowledge to you; you reacted to a simple evolutionary response...silverware in light socket equals BAD.

Also, most of the "staff" in drum corps nowadays ARE trained educators. It is what we do.

I would not call drum corps "school," but, then again, I do not think there are all that many brick buildings full of kids, adults, and books that deserve that title either.

[DrumCorpsFan27]

Besides, this guy is acting like drum corps staff members are making their kids called them Professor ______ and whatnot. I don't know how other corps are run, but I refer to everyone on my staff by their first name.... I guess "Drumcorpsfan" doesn't have much of a point anymore. Nice "call out"

I have a point. Just because you disagree doesn't mean I don't have a point. I do, a very specific point as a matter of fact.

[DrumCorpsFan27]

1) That's not the purpose. Until you understand that, there's not much further we can discuss.

2) If you're going to take cheap pot-shots at these people and drift into the grey areas of character assassination, please take it somewhere else. It doesn't make you or anyone around here look good. I'd like to think we're all better than that.

Let's keep some perspective here. These are just words. Nobody is REQUIRING that you call them what those corps call them. If you want to refer to them as members, staff, dues, and instructors, by all means you are entitled to. Just as long as you recognize and respect that those corps have just as much right as you do to call them what THEY want as it relates to THEIR corps. Live and let live.

Then I should have the right to call myself God, shouldn't I? After all, I can create life and I can take it away. But it's not the same, is it? It would be inappropriate for me to call myself God and then say, "hey, live and let live." It's not just words. Words have meaning, that convey a message. That is what needs to be respected, IMO.

Edited March 1, 2007 by DrumCorpsFan27

[jwillis35]

Most of the arguments for or against are very good.

As I said in my earlier post, we do have education in drum corps. There are instructors, and they teach the performers, who assume the role of student/learner.

I agree with the original poster that it sounds awkward when some use the term faculty and tuition. I don't refer to drum corps instructors that way, but I am not offended by those that do. Same with tuition.

With the use of the word faculty, I do think there are some inherent definitions that we associate with that term. The faculty of a college typically have masters degrees or higher, they have many years of experience in their profession, and they are quite good at their specialty. They have spent many years preparing, researching, writing, and working in their chosen areas. The combined efforts of this group (faculty) enforce and uphold the curriculum for higher education at the schools they represent.

The instructors of drum corps, as one poster pointed out, can be a mix of techs, assistants, caption heads, creative team, administration, and others. Many of the techs in drum corps do not possess the education, skill, experience, etc. that some college faculty do. This is not a slam. In drum corps we have some amazing techs out there, mainly because drum corps gives so much to those who march, and so when they do decide to help teach they bring lots to the table. But their contributions can at times be quite different from caption heads.

The use of educational terms has certainly increased since the 80s in large part due to the fact that there is money out there for those types of activities. Many corps have had to define their mission differently in order to align with educational standards being imposed by the states and those organizations with the money. I guess the real question is this: are these standards forcing drum corps to define itself as something that it isn't? Or are we changing who we are in order to be more like what the educational people want us to be?

[DrumCorpsFan27]

No, because their programs do not meet the qualifications for this. In order to actually be offered as a for credit course, there are a number of requirements that must be met, just the same as any other course offered at a fully-accredited institution. These include educators with the proper credentials, a formal curriculum, etc.

See above.

See above.

Every participant in the A Corps receives this credit. I believe that there was also this option for winterguard when there was a World class guard.

I have never set foot on DVC campus for any other purpose than rehearsals connected with Blue Devils. I never even applied to the college, paid them any tuition or attended any other courses.

As far as I remember, all we had to do was complete some form if we wanted these credits and the transcripts were sent to the school I was actually enrolled at.

There are numerous parallels to this in the professional world... for example...

The YEO-Stanford Executive Program

The EO/Inc. Magazine Birthing of Giants

Many of these courses are not taught by faculty of Stanford or MIT, but top business leaders that lack academic credentials. The majority of the individuals that attend these courses have never been formal students of these universities. Attendees of these programs, however, receive credit from these universities for their participation... on Stanford or MIT transcripts.

The only difference in the case of many of the individuals teaching drum corps, many of them actually do have appropriate academic credentials... and either teach or have taught on the university level.

See, you have proven my point. The accredited instition had to approve it. The Blue Devils are not the institution. The instition, by your description, rejects most drum corps programs for giving credit. Yet, those debating me still say they should be called faculty and their members students. And you are correct, there are numerous parallels. I am required to take seminars and continuing education classes. Many of these do offer college credit. I don't have to apply to the college or give them any money, but I am willing to bet that the organizers have to give them a cut of the money they make. Even if they don't, I'm not a student in that setting. The speaker is not the teacher, just someone with good information to give those who are interested. For them to say they are now educators and I am their student would be inappropriate, and they don't do it.

[DrumCorpsFan27]

I really don't understand why it matters if instructors call themselves faculty. Just another stupid thing for DCPers to get ###### off about. I guess we do deserve the reputation we get amongst staffers and designers.

I guess of all of it, faculty is the least annoying to me. Students and tuition are what bother me more. Combine that with calling the instructors faculty and corps appear to be saying they are formal educational institutions.

[liebot]

I don't get it. Why do you care? Do you really think drum corps instructors get off on being able to call themselves "teachers" or "faculty?" I'm pretty sure most of them already call themselves that, since most of them teach music at some level or another.

They don't feel high and mighty because they're "teachers" at some prestigious drum corps "school." In fact, I recently witnessed an instance of a corps director that is the band director at a high profile school in the marching arts that told the members of his corps (including people he had taught at his high school) that they were never to refer to him as Mr. _______.

Point is, these people don't need the affirmation of a title through drum corps. The name is just that - a name. Instructors in every corps I've been have a relationship with the members unlike anything you would ever find in the classroom. Who cares if somebody decides to call them "teachers?' That doesn't change the relationship between the members and the instructors, and has nothing to do with the direction drum corps is going currently.

Simply put, I just don't understand why you care.

[noneofyourbusiness]

Speaking from personal experience, the brass and marching staff at my son's Div. I corps have a lot more education, experience, knowledge, ability, etc. than the so-called "music faculty" at his high school. He learned more from the "special tech" they had at the last camp than he will ever learn from his Director of Bands. I had some people I know watch the instruction this guest instructor gave to the hornline last camp and they commented "those kids just got a Master's level class in breathing and technique".

So, his Director of Bands is more a "faculty member" than his corps staff??? NOT!

[DrumCorpsFan27]

You are missing the point here. Teacher/student relationships imply the willing and purposeful transfer of knowledge from one who has it to another that does not have it. The house did not impart knowledge to you; you reacted to a simple evolutionary response...silverware in light socket equals BAD.

Also, most of the "staff" in drum corps nowadays ARE trained educators. It is what we do.

I would not call drum corps "school," but, then again, I do not think there are all that many brick buildings full of kids, adults, and books that deserve that title either.

I am a trained educator. That doesn't mean that every time I impart knowledge to someone I am their teacher and they are my student.

I do agree with you that there are some brick buildings that should not have that title either, but that's another kettle of fish.

[liebot]

I guess of all of it, faculty is the least annoying to me. Students and tuition are what bother me more. Combine that with calling the instructors faculty and corps appear to be saying they are formal educational institutions.

I think this is more a marketing ploy than anything, and I think in the long run it's good for drum corps. Advertising it as such makes it appear as something more than another "summer camp," and in a world where high schoolers pay thousands to go to summer "leadership conferences" and other bull**** activities, it will make parents more willing to let their kids go for a summer and will look better on college resumes.

I'm not saying I like this "get ahead as soon as possible" attitude, but it's a reality in today's society and something that drum corps can capitalize on.

Edited March 1, 2007 by TSRTS13