Cadets struggling to find lead trumpets and mellos?

[audiodb]

So you're speaking for all marching members now? That statement is very wrong by the way.

Interesting how the first person to "speak for all marching members" gets a pass, while you call the second one to task.

[audiodb]

People always find it hard to believe, but pretty much every corps has open spots.

Cadets may be struggling a little this year, some years its other corps, but the spots always manage to get filled and life goes on.

In my opinion the biggest reason the top corps have trouble filling spots is because kids assume they are not good enough to make it and don't even bother to try out.

Well, this is what I find confusing. I can understand the few spots that open up unexpectedly as kids drop out, but not the larger problems of lacking lead-caliber players, or having so many openings that it becomes necessary to recruit once again in March.

If so many corps are now drawing 400 people to tryouts today, often more than double the numbers of yesteryear, why would any of them be having the same problems filling their sections? And, in fact, are other "top corps" having troubles like this? The only ones I have noticed running wholesale pleas for lead players are the Cadets and Crossmen.

[JimF-LowBari]

This might not have been a problem for them the past several year .. but it was ALWAYS a problem for them in the 80's (even with all the championships back then). I wouldn't be surprised to see them fill out the line in short order. If they can't get the quality they want up front .... they'll have to do it oldschool style and actually teach them how to play and beat them into greatness. It would be nice to see them prove they can still do it.

My first thought was Cadets didn't get enough leads at try outs (doubt it) or they are shooting too high with their expectations. After this post I'm wondering how much time is spent "teaching" and how much is spent going for a ring. IOW the better people you get, the less time you have to spend "teaching".

Note 1: Thinking this of top corps besides just the Cadets....

Note 2: Teaching is in quotes 'cause I couldn't hink of a better term.

[jwillis35]

History can be the greatest teacher here.

1. We don't know if the Cadets are struggling or not. Judging from the audio clips I have heard, the amount of music they have learned, and the positive energy that seems to be coming from their camps, it seems to me things are just fine.

2. Are they always looking for good players? Yes. But history shows us this is nothing new. They post these notices all the time. I have seen them advertise for good horn players for years and years, including most of their championship shows. Inn the 80s we just didn't see much of it in writing on a platform like this, but they were always looking to fill the horn line in the 80s with the best players. They started the 1992 season withh 52 horns.

3. If you understand one basic thing about the Cadets then you will realize why they are always on the lookout for better players: A lot of people end up cutting themselves at this level, sometimes due to demands, and other times for physical reasons or money reasons, and hence you must keep a fresh talent base coming to camps. They do not set a date for final cuts. They just keep plugging at it until those who can take it show up for spring training.

As someone mentioned earlier, Star of Indiana was always on the lookout for the best players, often because the average players, who may have been hanging on at camps, would ultimately fade, and to assume that your search for the best players will start and end over the Thanksgiving camp is a bit limiting (or even 2 or 3 camps in). The best horn lines want the best players who can handle the book. It's not about who was there first, it's about who is standing when it's all said and done with, regardless of placement.

In the 80s it was common for the Cadets to tell you at camps that you are NOT a Cadet until you march the last show. They usually told you that right after they mentioned that you will likely CUT yourself. And they were right.

Every corps handles this a bit differently, and the philosophies are varied, but each has their reasons. Some corps figure that they want their kids in place and solidly committed to the corps - signed, sealed, and delivered so they can start work on their show and know that changes in music and visual will be worked on by the same people. Others figure that until they have the best talent, auditions are not closed (although they may have offered many in their lines). They tend to set a bar very high, and until they have the talent that can meet that level they are constantly searching. This is why they are called auditions, and at some camps every day is an audition, even for vets. Usually they will tell you up front if this is how it's going to be.

Clearly what we see happening with many corps, including Cadets, is not a sign of impending doom. I have seen this for years and there are all kinds of reasons for it. Sometimes sickness causes a kid to not march and a corps must search for a replacement, sometimes the money issue gets in the way, sometimes kids cut themselves, and sometimes it may be due to injury, and we have certainly seen that a lot with the Cadets. None of these reasons = conspiracy, nor do they indicate things are not going well.

JW

[Mick Krackin']

The Cadets have been in the top 5 since 1982 (except for 1991 which was a pretty cool year.) Somehow, I think they will be just fine.

Having heard some camp recordings from this winter, I can't wait to see the whole show. Their brass book is pretty amazing.

[MikeD]

I know a lot of kids who wouldn't dare even try out for Cadets simply because they do not like their shows. I actually used to be one of them.

Every corps has a certain style, and potential members go to one or another based on how that style fits their own. I know of one contra who grew up in NJ but ended up at BD, back in the late 90's, because their corps philosophy matched his own personal one. He had zero interest in the Cadets, even though it would have cost him less $$$ overall, as his travel expenses would have been gas and turnpike tolls as opposed to flights.

[MikeD]

And what larger sample size would that be???? Let's compare the numbers the Cavaliers have every year at auditions to Cadets, and then lets talk about "larger sample size." The audition numbers speak for themselves, unless of course you have some other data to share. The polls taken here on DCP clearly support my opinion about my theory as well.

DCP is not indicative of anything in a general population sense. From reading other Cadet posts it appears that they almost always have difficulties in this area, so it's hardly their last year show that is driving the need for leads.

[MikeD]

Also, someone mentioned earlier that the type of show Cadets is doing is keeping kids away.

I have to say that personally, for me, if I was a new member looking to march somewhere, the shows the Cadets have done the last few years would keep me from going there.

I am a fan of the Cadets, especially the 80s and 90s, but the last 3 or 4 years have done nothing for me.

That being said, I am sure there are plenty of kids who feel the opposite, and I would think there are busloads of kids out there who would jump at the chance to march with such a fine organization.

Agree. If the show was what made me audition or not, 2004 would have kept me away, while 05 and 06 would have made me want them even more.

I don't see huge outpourings of love for the 03 and 04 shows, yet they had enough talent to win the whole thing in 05.

[MikeD]

Having seen my fair share of such shows, I find your statement inaccurate. Narration, in particular, is absent from most field shows.

I would say all shows use some form of "narration, electronics, etc"...since "etc" covers everything else. :P

[jwillis35]

Agree. If the show was what made me audition or not, 2004 would have kept me away, while 05 and 06 would have made me want them even more.

I don't see huge outpourings of love for the 03 and 04 shows, yet they had enough talent to win the whole thing in 05.

This is a very good point.

I sometimes think that people jump to the conclusion that a corps is having trouble if it is advertised that they still need some players to fill out the horn line or drum line. Every corps goes through this, and it will happen to some of the best corps even during the summer where they may have to find a good player/marcher to fill a spot.

The difference is this, and this is not to defend anyone or to take sides, but YEA seems to advertise these needs more than others. They tend to be a bit more open about what their needs are. Who knows, perhaps it's good marketing and it does help them attract some good players to their camps to help them fill needed spots. They obviously use the web as a means to this kind of marketing. Prior to the mid 90s this was not common for obvious reasons. Many corps do not advertise such needs, perhaps because they feel it looks bad and let's people know that they still need players, or perhaps because they feel the web will not really help them generate the kind of response they are looking for.

The bottom line is this: the Cadets are not the only corps that needs a few players. I'll bet other top corps do as well, but we simply hear nothing from them. The Indianapolis Colts need players, and they just won a Superbowl. I'll bet many of the top 25 and Div. II and III corps are still looking for players as well, so should we start a thread on them possibly having troubles? I bet many of those corps are having tremendous off-seasons, yet they are always on the look out for someone to fill a spot. That's life in a competitive arena. The initial roster you start with (at the first camp or so) is not the roster you end with. Just because you are the Cavaliers or Cadets, or Blue Devils and Bluecoats does not mean you always end up with your best options at the first camp, and it doesn't mean that injuries, finances, schooling, and other reasons will not ultimately get in the way.

Edited March 16, 2007 by jwillis35