euponitone Posted June 17, 2007 Share Posted June 17, 2007 Very cool! Glad to know that someone does that with Mr. Hopkins.So then, you just don't like the Cavaliers show this year (drill wise). Somehow I got the impression that this was the "the Cavaliers use too many gimmicks" argument. My apologies. :P Actually...i like their drill. Its probably the hardest thing out there for now, and they had the only falls of the night. My beef is with the way they alternate between either playing and marching, and not doing both simultaneously. I feel like its been their signature for years, except it didnt used to be as noticable. The way they are able to do such insane drill is by being smart about it and programming their shows so people dont notice the disconnect. I feel, as time goes on, they are becoming more and more overt in this manner of programming. 2006 was the first time it was offensive to me, and Im hoping 07 isnt. 2 days in...and im not impressed...yet. I guess we'll see what happens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbc03 Posted June 17, 2007 Share Posted June 17, 2007 No, it's just me who is going "lol Cadets fans" as far as I've ready today. Look, I'm really a fan of all the corps. I wish them all luck. I don't care for some of the shows, but that's true every year. I'm not going to go out of my way to convert people into hating the Cadets show this year just because I don't think the narration works. Likewise, it doesn't seem very cool to hate on The Cavies just because their drill doesn't do it for you. It's okay to do that among a small group of close friends, but is it really cool to do it in public?dbc03, it's all good. For the most part I thought people were respectfully talking about what they didn't like. I do think think that a couple of people could have been more tactful though. I just don't like all criticism being chalked up to sour grapes from Cadets alumni that can't think for themselves. I personally have really enjoyed the Cavaliers drill for years which is why I feel like this years drill is such a disappointment for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjeffeory Posted June 17, 2007 Share Posted June 17, 2007 (edited) Actually...i like their drill. Its probably the hardest thing out there for now, and they had the only falls of the night. My beef is with the way they alternate between either playing and marching, and not doing both simultaneously. I feel like its been their signature for years, except it didnt used to be as noticable. The way they are able to do such insane drill is by being smart about it and programming their shows so people dont notice the disconnect. I feel, as time goes on, they are becoming more and more overt in this manner of programming. 2006 was the first time it was offensive to me, and Im hoping 07 isnt. 2 days in...and im not impressed...yet. I guess we'll see what happens Well, I think that this is an argument I've seen on here before a few times. Perhaps it was from you or JediCadet05? It's okay... I'm not trying to call B.S. on it or give you a hard time, but to me that seems like a smart thing to do. Isn't it all about working smarter, not harder? If this is the case, they're playing to the sheets perfectly. I've certainly seen other corps do that EXACT same thing over the past 20 years that I've seen drumcorps live. The only corps that I've seen NOT do that was probably Star '91. The mellophones were flying around AND playing crazy runs at the same time. I dunno, would you really be entertained by a group of 135 running windsprints backwards and playing 16th note runs for 15 minutes at either FFFF or pppp? Edited June 17, 2007 by jjeffeory Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yabetterbelieveit Posted June 17, 2007 Share Posted June 17, 2007 (edited) This is quite a battle. My two cents is, from listening to Youtube and watching the show last night, this show is devastatingly more boring than even the last few years. I thought the drill would at least look at jazzy as it has been the last few years, and I can't even say that about the show. A friend of mine and I were joking that politics would lead to this.... "And in first place... with a score of 93.25.... The Cavaliers!" Obviously hyperbolic, especially considering it was the season's first show, but I predicted The Cavaliers would win, regardless of how they played and/or marched. Such is life. If you put a muted Cavaliers show from the last 8 years in front of me, I would be unable to tell you what year it is from. All these shows look very similar to me. Edited June 17, 2007 by yabetterbelieveit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjeffeory Posted June 17, 2007 Share Posted June 17, 2007 I just don't like all criticism being chalked up to sour grapes from Cadets alumni that can't think for themselves. Well, that's what I was worried about too. I've know many Cadets through the years, and they're really cool people. That's why I was questioning all of this. Heck, my assistant H.S. Band director was a Cadet alum and he was VERY cool and laid back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedicadet05 Posted June 18, 2007 Share Posted June 18, 2007 The Cavaliers know how to make a show clean. Their "dot to dot "system has been unbeatable many times over. They are probly the "smartest" corps out there. Smart show design, they know how to get the numbers! My theory is that this is so because of the lack of demand in their programs (recent years). If one does less, he/she can clean is faster and better than the next guy. But when does ease and cleanliness fall to difficulty? I LOVE marching my ### off. I want the judge to have to run to catch up to me and love what he hears at the same time. I guess i'm still thinking in terms of the "faster higher louder" era. He who marches the fastest and plays the best at the same time is the best. hence being that they have the best marchers and players as proven by the musical quality on the move. When at what % cleanliness should a "hard" show beat a 100% clean "easy" show? If at all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meaghatron Posted June 18, 2007 Share Posted June 18, 2007 The Cavaliers know how to make a show clean. Their "dot to dot "system has been unbeatable many times over. They are probly the "smartest" corps out there. Smart show design, they know how to get the numbers!My theory is that this is so because of the lack of demand in their programs (recent years). If one does less, he/she can clean is faster and better than the next guy. But when does ease and cleanliness fall to difficulty? I LOVE marching my ### off. I want the judge to have to run to catch up to me and love what he hears at the same time. I guess i'm still thinking in terms of the "faster higher louder" era. He who marches the fastest and plays the best at the same time is the best. hence being that they have the best marchers and players as proven by the musical quality on the move. When at what % cleanliness should a "hard" show beat a 100% clean "easy" show? If at all? Until you march one of their shows, you shouldn't call it easy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedicadet05 Posted June 18, 2007 Share Posted June 18, 2007 (edited) Until you march one of their shows, you shouldn't call it easy. This is true. But seriously.....constant stand stills and minimal playing w/o marching. For example....Cavs 2006...remember that cool stretchy block thing? I loved it! It was great!1!! But they had three massive breaks in the middle of their show. I'D LOVE THAT TOO. OMFG If I had a break inbetween Dancer and the closer...whoa....THAT would be awesome! Not to mention right before we hit 200, a nice break there woulda been sweet. not easy, but easier Edited June 18, 2007 by Jedicadet05 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meaghatron Posted June 18, 2007 Share Posted June 18, 2007 This is true. But seriously.....constant stand stills and minimal playing w/o marching. For example....Cavs 2006...remember that cool stretchy block thing? I loved it! It was great!1!! But they had three massive breaks in the middle of their show. I'D LOVE THAT TOO. OMFG If I had a break inbetween Dancer and the closer...whoa....THAT would be awesome! Not to mention right before we hit 200, a nice break there woulda been sweet. not easy, but easier Maybe you should have marched The Cavaliers then. :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euponitone Posted June 18, 2007 Share Posted June 18, 2007 Well, I think that this is an argument I've seen on here before a few times. Perhaps it was from you or JediCadet05? It's okay... I'm not trying to call B.S. on it or give you a hard time, but to me that seems like a smart thing to do. Isn't it all about working smarter, not harder? If this is the case, they're playing to the sheets perfectly. I've certainly seen other corps do that EXACT same thing over the past 20 years that I've seen drumcorps live.The only corps that I've seen NOT do that was probably Star '91. The mellophones were flying around AND playing crazy runs at the same time. I dunno, would you really be entertained by a group of 135 running windsprints backwards and playing 16th note runs for 15 minutes at either FFFF or pppp? I've gotten the 'smarter not harder' thing a few times, usually from former marching members of the corps. I think its a good mantra to have, but I think you'll agree that there must be a line somewhere. I get that every corps that has a few moments where the book is so hard that you cant play it standing still. However, in my opinion, the cavaliers do far too much of it this year. Take star 91 for example. A classic show, with an even more classic hornline that most cant live up to. Lets just say, they played and marched for 75% of their show. Thats simultaneous demand, horns moving and playing. Now lets say the average corps now days, (including the cavies from 03 04 or so) are around 60%. Thats still a decent number, and respectable. What I saw from the cavaliers last night was about half that. I think they may have taken a hit in brass because of it actually. I know they werent behind by much, but for the cadets to be ahead of them in brass early in the season is nearly unheard of. In my 3 years of marching, I dont think we ever beat them in brass in any show that wasnt in late july / august. Im not sure how that could be my bias, and I know its only june, but it just doesnt strike me as the kind of 'OMGZZ the CaveaL13rZ are awesomezzz' show that almost convinced me to march there in 01 and 02. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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