2009 DCA Finals Show - Live Thread

[Bruckner8]

Some people just don't understand how the current system works. Bucs getting perfect scores in percussion tonight, for example, doesn't mean they were PERFECT. It means that, tonight, NOBODY would have done better than them. Also take into consideration the point spread between corps. Judges have to figure out that spread each time they give out a number and they can't go back to change those numbers later on. This is why I will NEVER be a judge. Getting that right is more than I am capable of doing.

Then get rid of the 100 point ceiling. It's completely arbitrary, based on this explanation. Why have a ceiling at all? The fact that we have a ceiling, means that we have a standard of perfection, period. The fact that a judge "needs room" shows that the system is FLAWED.

Either we're going to "build up" the score from 0, using measurable criteria, where 100 is perfect, or we're going to start at 100 and "tick" our way down (again, using measurable "tick" criteria).

But no...instead, as Kevin explains, we "merely" rank them within the confines of the build-up system, knowing darn well that most of the judges are actually "ticking" their way to their number (cuz it's a lot easier, esp when corps are relatively equal.)

I've been thinking of a system that has no ceiling and no floor. I'll need a few more months to think it through. It uses numbers and "relative spreads," but it's main goal is to rank the corps by using an infinite scale of one's own choosing.

[tympmom]

Good job Vigilantes!!!! I really didn't expect you guys to finish near that high. Awsome Drum Line and I like the agressive Hornline.

they were great and deserved all the praise they got. drumline awesome, guard great, hornline switching from trumpets to contras wonderful!! They can take me out to the ball game anytime. for their first year i think they should be very very proud of their accomplishments. hope they are a force to be reconned (?) with next year hope they return. breath of fresh air to drum corps.

they have freakin' fun out there and it shows. would love to be a member of that organization.

[CrunchyTenor]

I will buy 2 copies of the finals DVD and Finals CD. This thread was FRIGGIN AMAZING. Again I cant thank you guys enough, this was simply an amazing thread. I mean tell me the last time there were over 700 people on a single DCP Thread at one time?

August 8, 2009. There were over 900 on DCI finals night.

Now, if you said "tell me the last time there were over 700 people on a single DCA Thread at one time?", that would be different.

All in all, a great couple of days from the coverage team; the DCA team; all the members of the Open, Class A, and mini-corps in competition; the alumni corps; and anyone in I&E that wasn't marching.

Garry in Vegas

Edited September 7, 2009 by CrunchyTenor

[84BDsop]

Yes because by DCI STANDARDS the Bucs show was slow, and there GE was weak, by DCI STANDARDS.

Don't be offended, like I have already said The Bucs deserved to win. However to sit there and say they would have made the DCI finals, is ridiculous. There GE was slow, compared to DCI Standards. The Bucs had waaaaay to many standstills.

Now according to DCA Standards they are great.

There music book was somewhat weak, being that most DCI Corps are doing minimalist books.

I honestly believe that The Troopers 2009 DCI Finals Show would have easily beaten The Bucs.

I must disagree....admittedly, based only on the 3 minute clip posted during finals, I believe Bucs could've either made top 12 or given Troop (to use the current 12th place guys) a run for their money.

Sure the design features in a DCA vs DCI show are different...for physical reasons for the older members, if nothing else. But long term DCA corps have been getting younger for years...someone once said to me Bucs was like a Cadets feeder....Empire certainly has a younger average age than when I was in the corps. Modern DCA design takes that into account...I saw some drill in Bucs just now that an older-aged corps would never attempt (SoCal Dream....last bit of Malaga, right, Garry?? Still amazed no one got killed, and that I was on the podium).

The music was strong and the dirt in the drill was on a par with the 12th-17th range DCI corps.

You're also ignoring one important factor....the number of DCI designers, instructors, and current/former members who have been contributing to the sr activity for years now...that has an effect.

In the past I would say Bucs could not have made DCI top 12 (06 for example)....but from the little I saw of 09? I wouldn't bet against them.

Edited September 7, 2009 by 84BDsop

[84BDsop]

Sorry but you are way off.

Buccs hornline, drumline or CG could not beat any DCI finalist this year in GE or music, yes its my opinion but it is also fact.

No, it is not....as no DCI finalist has competed directly against Bucs at any show with the same judging panel and the same judging criteria.

Put THAT performance together and we can talk fact....until then, it's all conjecture.

[Smglennon]

I didn't want to say it, as Randy was hoping it was Gades. But Cabs, parking lots and Rochester have quite the history!!

I don't want to talk about it! :devil:

F! that city in the A. with .1

[Ron H]

No, it is not....as no DCI finalist has competed directly against Bucs at any show with the same judging panel and the same judging criteria.

Put THAT performance together and we can talk fact....until then, it's all conjecture.

While I'm not going to take a side in this debate, I'll tell you about my personal experience.

Back when Drum Corps Midwest was operating, all the corps regardless of class - including the Jr and Sr corps - were on the same DCI sheets and judged by the same DCI judges using the same criteria. MBI often beat a couple of the top 12 junior corps in a few captions here and there over the years. I don't doubt the same would be true today with the better DCA corps and the 12th-17th DCI corps.

[bucmellow]

Sorry but you are way off.

Buccs hornline, drumline or CG could not beat any DCI finalist this year in GE or music, yes its my opinion but it is also fact.

GE is made up from these elements of speed, accuracy/cleanliness of all sections as well as show design. Music(while marching) as well plays a big part in the GE. The average age of the Buccs just wouldn't allow this to happen. Not my opinion but fact.

I loved the Buccs show this year and they deserved their 5th straight title but they are not capable of competing in DCI World Class.

Ar you for real? Have you really watched the Blue Devils and listened to their music???? 3 measures in the entire program in Rhapsody were challenging. Readings drill was far more difficult and the horns and drums exposed, no sitting around and carrying chairs from place to place. Oh, you see their score? I can't believe you could say something so rediculous.

Edited September 7, 2009 by bucmellow

[dunk]

We are real. That was a well deserved score. The Bucs took DCA to a whole new level tonight.

For corps to jump 2,3,4, points between prelims and finals, no way does a corps get that much better in 24 hrs.The Bucs did deserved to win, but a 99, They were not that close to perfection.

[Jeff DeMello]

Thanks to all for your nice comments on my video clips!

Also, thanks to John Donovan for again putting together such a great team for DCA ... you guys are fun people! Each year is better than the last!

Next year I'm hoping to produce a live video feed of DCA Prelims / Alumni / Finals ... here's hoping!