Lance Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 (edited) 4 hours ago, johnpendell said: Not sure if it's been posted yet, but yesterday I gave the whole Bernstein's Mass a listen. Listened to two different recordings (sometimes the recording makes the piece) and I gotta say... I cannot get into it at all. There's cool epic brassy moments throughout, but overall I was left thinking what in the world ???? It's like Bernstein wanted to be serious and then was like, "SYKE! here's a scene from a broadway project I'm doing for some reason." over and over again. Just seems like a joke, compared to masterpieces like the B minor Mass... I guess my unpopular opinion is that I can't stand this musical selection that's basically Cadets' show for 2017, hopefully I don't hate the show Cadets are one if not my favorite corps. i share your opinion for me, it's derivative of his other excellent work, and almost reductive in places obviously an unpopular opinion doesn't mean i won't enjoy the cadets show this year, though. the number of pieces i didn't like in their original form, but LOVED when arranged well for brass is pretty big. Edited May 24, 2017 by Lance 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnpendell Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 3 hours ago, xandandl said: and maybe you were just having one of those days. It is not a simple work. To attribute a theology or philosophy to this particular Bernstein's work is to ignore the tension of the times and various cultures in which it was written. He, not a Christian but a Jew who struggles with his own believing growing up after the Holocaust and Korean Wars, writes during the Viet Nam Conflict, a most contentious time for US foreign and internal politics. Authority is being questioned in religion, in politics, and even in self-identity. Bernstein touches all that in his music both in the rhythms and chords/melodies and counterpoints as well as the lyrics and reference (think source music) of ancient liturgies. Yes, the opus bounces from pathos to pathos, from despair to beauty to conflict. If the audience member is placid with the piece, then the meaning has been missed entirely. If the design team is successful in encapsulating in 11 minutes significant moments from the musical and emotional encyclopedia Bernstein presents, then it will be a most engaging show. I suppose I can understand what you're saying. For me though, I feel music should speak for itself, ESPECIALLY a mass. When it has to be explained, to me that's when the intent and spark of it is lost. Almost like explaining a joke. I'm not a musical prude btw, I like all kinds of weird experimental musical ventures. Just suppose this one isn't my cup of tea either way. I'm sure it'll come together when I see it live, either way I want the Cadets to succeed this season! They obviously see something I don't which is fine. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnpendell Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 (edited) 7 hours ago, Lance said: i share your opinion for me, it's derivative of his other excellent work, and almost reductive in places obviously an unpopular opinion doesn't mean i won't enjoy the cadets show this year, though. the number of pieces i didn't like in their original form, but LOVED when arranged well for brass is pretty big. Exactly! I'm really not too worried about it. Usually with Cadets I can close my eyes and enjoy the show completely, so I'm sure after last year and from the pressure of the Bernstein preservation company/agency/whatever it's called, they're gonna put out a really good product. Edited May 24, 2017 by johnpendell 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lance Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 wrong note rag would be fun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cixelsyd Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 7 hours ago, johnpendell said: I suppose I can understand what you're saying. For me though, I feel music should speak for itself, ESPECIALLY a mass. When it has to be explained, to me that's when the intent and spark of it is lost. Almost like explaining a joke. I'm not a musical prude btw, I like all kinds of weird experimental musical ventures. Just suppose this one isn't my cup of tea either way. I'm sure it'll come together when I see it live, either way I want the Cadets to succeed this season! They obviously see something I don't which is fine. Now there is an unpopular opinion, at least among the judging community these days. It has been some time since a DCI corps could just let their music speak for itself. Today, you are required to have a theme, in order to satisfy some unwritten demand for (pseudo-) intellectual effect. That theme must be supported by the injection of non-traditional drum corps components such as electronic sounds and effects, or words/lyrics. While I expect judges and designers think these elements "develop" the theme, they backfire on some of the audience who, like you, feel that we are having the music "explained" to us unnecessarily. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnpendell Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 8 hours ago, cixelsyd said: Now there is an unpopular opinion, at least among the judging community these days. It has been some time since a DCI corps could just let their music speak for itself. Today, you are required to have a theme, in order to satisfy some unwritten demand for (pseudo-) intellectual effect. That theme must be supported by the injection of non-traditional drum corps components such as electronic sounds and effects, or words/lyrics. While I expect judges and designers think these elements "develop" the theme, they backfire on some of the audience who, like you, feel that we are having the music "explained" to us unnecessarily. Yup! That's why I enjoyed Phantom's 2016 show. A very vague theme, if it even was a theme, that really could mean ANYTHING, and they played great music that felt uplifting and feel-good, and they did it well! It was straight to the point, and there wasn't all these little philosophical details that only the members or staff will get. Yes, compared to other shows it's "boring", and that reflected in scoring, but that's not why I love drum corps! I feel themes can make things sooo cheesy and eye-roll worthy, I think these designers forget that these performances are on football fields and not Carnegie Hall and that it's Drum Corps not Blue Man Group. It is what it is though.. not like it's gonna change. I enjoy the shows anyway, but just a thought in the back of my head. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cappybara Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 2 hours ago, johnpendell said: Yup! That's why I enjoyed Phantom's 2016 show. A very vague theme, if it even was a theme, that really could mean ANYTHING, and they played great music that felt uplifting and feel-good, and they did it well! It was straight to the point, and there wasn't all these little philosophical details that only the members or staff will get. Yes, compared to other shows it's "boring", and that reflected in scoring, but that's not why I love drum corps! I feel themes can make things sooo cheesy and eye-roll worthy, I think these designers forget that these performances are on football fields and not Carnegie Hall and that it's Drum Corps not Blue Man Group. It is what it is though.. not like it's gonna change. I enjoy the shows anyway, but just a thought in the back of my head. Phantom 2016 was beautiful in its own way. It was like watching a concert on the football field rather than a show with flashy gimmicks 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnpendell Posted May 25, 2017 Share Posted May 25, 2017 1 hour ago, Cappybara said: Phantom 2016 was beautiful in its own way. It was like watching a concert on the football field rather than a show with flashy gimmicks Agreed! Only thing I can say about Phantom is that they seem really tense every time they perform. Specifically the trumpet soloist. She looked like she's having a minor panic attack throughout. Couldn't tell by her playing though! My friends marching Phantom and I'm excited to see what product they put out this year, I know I'll enjoy it. Also, those uniforms are soooo good looking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cappybara Posted May 25, 2017 Share Posted May 25, 2017 8 minutes ago, johnpendell said: Agreed! Only thing I can say about Phantom is that they seem really tense every time they perform. Specifically the trumpet soloist. She looked like she's having a minor panic attack throughout. Couldn't tell by her playing though! My friends marching Phantom and I'm excited to see what product they put out this year, I know I'll enjoy it. Also, those uniforms are soooo good looking. Ah you've seen the new unis? Yes, they are quite good looking this year, it's a relief since they haven't put out a truly great uniform since 2010 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tobias Posted May 25, 2017 Share Posted May 25, 2017 6 hours ago, johnpendell said: Yup! That's why I enjoyed Phantom's 2016 show. A very vague theme, if it even was a theme, that really could mean ANYTHING, and they played great music that felt uplifting and feel-good, and they did it well! It was straight to the point, and there wasn't all these little philosophical details that only the members or staff will get. Yes, compared to other shows it's "boring", and that reflected in scoring, but that's not why I love drum corps! I feel themes can make things sooo cheesy and eye-roll worthy, I think these designers forget that these performances are on football fields and not Carnegie Hall and that it's Drum Corps not Blue Man Group. It is what it is though.. not like it's gonna change. I enjoy the shows anyway, but just a thought in the back of my head. Phantom can play jingle bells and i would love them. So classy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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