jkmummer

We don't allow electronics. At least not yet.

I agree with some earlier posts. July 4th is a money day for most corps. On the year that it falls on a weekend, you force corps to give up a chance to earn some income. Secondly, color guards simply wouldn't have the amount of time to be fully ready or designed by July 4th when most corps don't call them in until after the indoor season is completed. From what I saw most guards were in house by the first or second weekend of May whereas the music side has been going since late November through January (Starting) and on the field around the first of March.

As a fan of the OSU band, it's ironic that one of the last torch bearers of traditional marching band style is on the cutting edge of the technological advances in how corps and bands will eventually be taught using the IPAD apps being developed by students in eliminating dot books and all paper. There's also real time video apps being developed with an eye toward providing video transferred to an individual musician or section in order to learn and clean drill.

His press release when Rich took over C2 and let Eric Kitchenman go was not done well. This was only slightly better in that Rich got 2 sentences. The guy lifted a corps from scratch and took a first year indoor percussion unit to a WGI championship deserved a bit better than that.

I tried to look it up in a couple of the judging manuals, and I couldn't find it specifically laid out. It's the acronym that my circuit uses. The synopsis is that essentially ALL number are available at any time. The system Is laid out to never have a judge claim that I scored you too low because you went on too early and I had to leave room. It's also designed to help with the numbers management process as it related to Sunday night. This system is being employed by DCI, DCA, WGI and many high school circuits. It's maybe 3 to 5 years old. The first evidence you could have noticed it would have been at DCI quarterfinals. In years past you would get a corps score within one or two corps following corps 1's performance. This year you didn't get the scores until after the break because they were still in final calculations and fluid until the break. The competition is broken down into groups and judged accordingly. Judges are still scoring on their personal tote/worksheets, but are not turned in until after a group of corps perform. ( Usually at a break) They will then fill out an official tote with final numbers after they may or may not have made changes or refinements to the group they just judged. My guess is that numbers for Reading and maybe Minnesota were adjusted up towards the end of the show when the performances by MB and Cabs didn't not exceed what Reading did in the judges opinion. That's where the 100's came in. The old complaint of "Leaving Room" also applies to the middle when higher seeded groups do not perform at a higher level then those that went before. In this case the room had to be made in the middle in order to accurately portray what a judge thought to be correct in his/her caption based on score and point spread. In championships that are random order performance and not seeded it's been a great improvement in not "penalizing" a group strictly due performance order.

Guess I'm a little surprised that the Equal Advantage Scoring System is such an issue or surprise for most people. My thought was it evens out the field as it relates to order of performance and is better suited to produce accurate spreads between corps. It's also become the chosen method by most of the national circuits and local ones as well. In a close competition as what we had this weekend, it makes it a lot easier to judge knowing that you can refine your numbers and spreads accurately before turning them in. Without the ability to change or review, the chances that some on the panel may have boxed themselves out after Reading was a real possibility and could have also called the show a different way. Whether you agree or disagree with the result, they most certainly called what they believed was their show of the day.

HMMM . . .And I thought you were referring to the Percussion Judge. Shows you what I know.

Cabs 92.60 Bucs 92.55 Fusion 89.85 C2 87.35

I know spreads are going to tighten. There's no doubt. If we were simply talking about Bucs first and Cabs second in percussion, then it's just about the spread which could get tighter. When you start losing to other corps you're now creating a bigger issue. Not only are you dealing with placing, that placing will also create a larger spread to fit those corps who are beating you. It essentially creates a scenario where you need to run the table everywhere else or be significantly better in any one caption to make up for it. In which case, refer to the first sentence about everything tightening.

Maybe I'm looking too much into this, but the Cabs percussion number is starting to look like an issue. Down .5 to Fusion and C2 and MBI were not in the show. They've been down to C2 in a previous show. With Reading, popping big numbers all season, Cabs are leaving no room for error in any other caption if they end up 5th in Percussion.

Jeff by the same token 10th place at championships with a low 60/high 50 number is kind of adding insult to injury. The placement speaks for it's self. No need to hammer a number to overstate the point.

Big W, It stands for Equal Advantage Scoring System.

Joe, I have to be honest and agree with Jeff that your posts are confusing. On the one hand your saying scores are to high, on the other you want to set a base of 50 which would suggest that the top scores would in fact be high. Unless you're assuming that a judge would use the bottom box of 50 to whatever the top of that box should be in a championship setting. I'll also agree with Big W that it's not wizardry. You evaluate a performance. As you do this you're narrowing down a frame of what and how a group is achieving and determining what box criteria and descriptors the group is achieving. Essentially getting yourself into a range of about 15 points depending on what is defined for that particular box. Then narrow down further where in the box, low, middle, high. Then who do I have that may be in the same general number area. Was this group better or worse, and by how much which is defined on the back of the sheets by looking at the value of a tenth. Jeff and John have explained and Dan is right that the WGI book does explain this well. Once your at this point, it's really up to that judges experiences and professional call. Currently DCA and many circuits are using the EASS system which allows the judge to evaluate a group of teams and then be able to adjust and tweak numbers accordingly before finalizing their numbers and turning them in. What this has done is eliminate the phrase "I would've had you higher/lower but you were on too early or late" Because of this change I personally believe the numbers are probably more accurate or reflective of what a judge feels than ever before.

Figured as much John. But you know there are those Drum Corps experts out there. I'm not making Dtown either so it may be until Big Sounds before I will get a chance to see anyone live.

John, I'll start this off with a couple of caveats. 1)I'm a fan and respect your reviews and on the scene reporting and use them to stay in touch. More so this year than in previous years since I have not had the chance to see both of these corps live and really can't comment on anything on the field. The best I could do was the lot at WW since it was my wedding anniversary, and that's all I can get away with. I do take issue with the comment that because you weren't at the show you can't state whether you think the numbers were in fact accurate. You and I (for that matter) with our judging backgrounds can have an opinion from the stands, but we aren't the ones who are being tasked with throwing those numbers. We can disagree on what those folks did, but like it or not they are accurate (and the only ones that matter) because they go in the record books as such. And ultimately those numbers will be the ones that will determine who gets a trophy. Everything else will get us through a couple of beers and bar talk. Again, with all due respect, and not the Ricky Bobby kind. For those that got a little crazy with the percussion numbers last week, this weeks were still "in that ballpark" with a 9.0 in composition. They were only .4 below last weeks high water mark, and could be further indication that RB's percussion could really be that good and had a great show last week. Cabs were closer this week but they were .6 tenths behind still. This could shake out that the trophy will hinge on Cabs guard vs. RB's percussion since they are both .06 ahead of each other and are the widest spreads. The fact that Hurricanes are leading the guard caption could lower how big Cabs guard can push the spread unless they beat them and set the number. As it's shaking out now, prelims may be the only challenge in percussion for RB and that should be MBI. If Reading beats MBI, that could push Cabs down to 4th behind MBI and possibly C2 who does have some strength in percussion. With all other captions starting to close up these captions will make for an interesting rest of the season, but I look at these two as possibly the deciders. Cabs spread may have gotten bigger this week, but there is some daylight there for RB. Agree with them or disagree with them, and maybe it wouldn't be what you or I would do, but all the numbers from before and going forward are accurate because they're the only ones that count. It sure makes for great debate.

Big W, I can vouch for the actual stadium parking. You'll be good there. I attended the DCI show there and have to attend a couple of Union games a year since my insurance company is a major sponsor. Plus where they park the buses and the warm up area require that corps and many people will be occupying that lot. It's a YEA show so you can tickets through them, and even if your in the boonies, there really isn't a bad seat especially up high. Attending a soccer game there last year, I thought it would be a great venue not knowing a show was in the works. Hope this helps.

As for RB domination, it depends on what the definition of domination is. A win is a win. Point spreads are great for DCP but you have to win captions to win championships. Retention problems would only be an issue, if RB was having problems filling the spots which usually isn't a problem. Lastly, while I believe there are more corps on the improved track and will be better, based on the published rehearsal schedules, it's tough to beat a corps that puts more hours in than any of their competition. They also rarely make a design mistake as proven by 8 perfect top box scores and 9 -99's top box scores at the last 2 championships. This year they are competing less which means more time on the field and on design. Either way, there were 6 great performances at finals last year which bodes well for an entertaining 2014 and maybe a real run at RB, but it's going to be a big mountain to climb.

As my screen name would imply, Bruni and his jacket are a man after my own heart. Your welcome on Broad Street anytime.

I think all of the reasons stated are contributing to what may be going right. Personally I believe that the strength of any large organization is due to the health of the individual membership. DCA whether by design or otherwise is a real alternative to those DCI aged kids that can't afford the time or money investments in going on tour. The tell tale sign would be to see how many DCI corps have age outs that only marched 1 or 2 years with any particular corps. I happened to see an age out list for the Cavaliers and somewhere in the neighborhood of 25 to 30% were one year age outs. I know of many kids that at the very least are making an effort to march/audition knowing it's their last eligible year, but spent the previous years marching in DCA. For the west coast, DCI open class is the real alternative, but not so in the east where there aren't any prominent open class choices. Outside of Cadets, which only have so many spots, the only other world option is Surf, and from kids that I know well, they see Reading, C2 or Cabs and now Fusion as a better performance/experience opportunity.

Ohio State always has a home game labor day weekend. That is also when they schedule their own alumni band weekend as well. Maybe DCA can switch. Next year OSU plays Navy at M&T in Baltimore and DCA can go to The Shoe.

Thanks Liz. I guess that's really my point and why it struck me the wrong way. They chose to join DCA knowing that this is the deal. It's not like the rules changed. First off, if you want to solicit donations, do it. Did the DCA stuff/rant need to be in there? Do you see this from any other DCA corps or are they figuring out a way to do it without taking shots? I agree with all, that they have certainly strengthened the overall product and I'll make sure to be in the stadium when they perform Sunday. I am a fan of Cadets and C2, but how YEA/HOP represents itself in public is a PR head scratcher.

This was posted to Facebook this evening. I read it 3 times to make sure of what I was reading. Is it me, or are they asking for help and bashing the DCA and the DCA Championship Model at the same time. Did they not know what they were getting in to before they decided to field a DCA corps? I think a better investment might be hiring a PR person. I can't believe that a non profit with their visibility doesn't think through what they release under their name on social media. Hey all ... As you know we have Cadets 2 ... on the way to Annapolis. Our goal, over a few fast years, is to run the corps at a break even. We have help from YAMAHA, and other partners, but for 2012, the corps cost $90K to run, and this year ... we have been doing really well ... ... EXCEPT NOW!!! DCA, which is an inexpensive alternative to DCI, forces the corps to stay at the hotel for three nights. Thats 150 room nights or $16,874.29 And we ... do not need the rooms. We could have stayed at a school. But to date ... there is no change and suddenly, the costs of running C2 start to make you wonder. $16K here, 12K for buses, $5K for food and the final weekend is $33K. And unlike some corps, we can't make the kids pay for this weekend. Heck ... We come home Sunday night. The rooms are empty. YES ... Sunday night we lose $5600.00!!! So, before you bemoan that DCA does this ... that is for another day. What we are working to do, is to see if we can get 128 people to sponsor 128 kids for their room charge for the three days. That's $122.00. I did it .. and the last time I looked 18 other people have done it. This will wipe out that hotel bill. And this will make it possible for Cadets2 to have a fabulous weekend and for YEA! to look forward to 2014 with a better plan for a better corps and an awesome experience for these kids. DCA has some potential ... and the Cadets 2 model may be something we can all expand on. But we do need a little help. As a not for profit, as a youth program, and as an agency that works for others, we are asking for folks to come on board. Gang ... Empire Statesmen will be performing for the last time this year in Annapolis. We plan to be in Rochester. We want to give Reading, and Hawthorne and others a run for their money for years to come. We have 3 days to interest 100 folks in our future. We have three days to ease the fiscal pain of this program. We have three days to make sure that this all makes sense for today and for tomorrow.

What he said. I'm not opposed to the unexpected or substantial one time investment fund raiser. Those are not an every year occurance and some can come up unexpectedly. But when it involves costs that should have been budgeted and planned for, it raises some concerns over the total financial planning.

I'd like to know who the other 2 are. I saw this request as well today, and thought why. This corps in particular has one of the highest "tour" fees in the DCA activity by almost double. I'm all for the yearly fund rasier to support an ADDITIONAL expense like equipment or uniforms, but something that should be part of the annual budget and accounted for in the operating costs is kind of a concern.

Woodbridge spread between Bucs and Cab was 2.3 Scranton spread was 2.15 Picked up .15 in one week. If Cabs continue to close at that rate, then they might catch them by Christmas.