Tim K

I loved the parade itself but will agree that the gathering at the end was too short, especially since they told us at semi's that we would hear "Simple Gifts," "America the Beautiful," and "The Star Spangled Banner." I would add we also should have heard "O Canada" played by Blue Saints and Les Stentor. I also expected we'd have some impromptu moments from eth corps, but I'm sure at that point, everyone was worn out not to mention some corps were heading home just as the parade ended. However, what I really enjoyed was the camaraderie between the corps at the beginning and end, how many members of one corps went to say good bye to members of other corps and told them they'd see them next year. The parade was a total feel good event.

Bridgemen alums loved Surf, some even volunteered to help them "blow their horns" like the Bridgemen used to, and that they did. However, the Surf staff I spoke with as well as Bridgemen alums stated they are not trying ot resurrect the Bridgemen in the guise of Surf. Surf will probably find its identity as one of the "great entertainers" in the line of Bridgemen, Velvet Knights, Sky Riders, etc., but they will not be carbon copies. I would like to see more Surf style shows, not in tributes to other corps, but finding an idea, running with it, working to perfect it, and having a great time. This is essentially what Surf did this year. I'd also venture to say this is already happening in Open Class and World Class corps. I personally found this year far more entertaining than last year, and that's saying a lot because I thought 2011 was one of the best years I had seen in a while.

They can be charged as adults if they commit murder and perhaps rape. The thread is about the corps' responsibilities regarding the safety of its younger members. If something serious happened and a corps was taken into court by a parent, the maturity of the child would never negate the responsibilities of the corps and the parents good faith in the corps would be a given, even if the corps had a horrible reputation (my guess is that none of them do). Chances are the minor's maturity would not even be admissible in court. Also, the corps would not have any rights as legal guardians in any state, so drinking would never be permitted unless a parents is a member of staff or a chaperon.

Legally, yes a 16 or 17 year old is a child, or perhaps better phrased minor.And you're right about 12-14 year olds not thinking they are children: my 12 year old niece thinks she's grown up because she goes with her aunt for pedicures. On a more serious note, I have known 12 year olds who have had to shoulder parenting responsibilities due to addicted or absentee parents, and yes they rise to the occasion, but their lack of maturity often expresses itself in other ways. They are still kids, no matter how mature they appear. Also maturity can be deceiving. How many honor student/athletes/role models get in trouble for stupid mistakes that have consequences for a life time? When dealing with young people, even if there were not legal ramifications, we still need to err on the side of caution. This does not mean we have to be over protective or treat them like small children, and kids need the freedom to grow, but we can't forget they are still kinds, legally and in most cases emotionally.

BD's victory means thy won the title. Period. This is no small accomplishment, but any year the Blue Devils win, it's not a surprise. I've said on other posts that the Blue Devils are going to do what the Blue Devils will do, and they don't usually have followers. They do set the standard, but they are not trend setters and there is a difference. So I am not expecting "Cabaret Voltaire" look-alikes next year. If you loved BD this year, drum corps has not been saved, and if you hated them, well, their victory is not the end of drum corps so don't call the undertaker and plan the funeral. Now I loved Crown's show this year and actually thought their semi's show was the best of the three nights and should have topped BD at least that evening. Now we can have all sorts of debates as to which show was superior, but there is one thing I noticed about BD that I believe made a difference. Crown's show was fast paced and there was little to no time to digest what was happening which was an advantage and disadvantage. BD also had a fast paced show, but there were small intervals where what they were doing could be processed. Judges had a better chance to evaluate what was happening. This would not have changed Crown's percussion issues, but it might have helped visually and with guard. And as I've said before, BD knows what it takes to win, took the time to make sure their show was clean before heading out for the major portion of the tour, and this strategy worked. Strategy is part of competition too.

I have two issues to discuss: Box 7 Ministries and corps responsibilities. The person who suggested Box 7 Ministries may not have had a religious agenda in mind as much as a suggestion of a group that knows drum corps and could potentially be neutral offering advice. Work in ministry is not always about converting people and people in professional ministry see everything from birth to death and all kinds of things in-between, have a unique perspective on the human condition, and are called for advice on all kinds of matters.. Now as far as drum corps and minors are concerned, a corps has two choices: allow minors to march or not allow them. If they want talented 16 and 17 year olds, they have to follow safety procedures for minors. This would not be a matter of corps policy, it would be the law. If some of the things the original poster mentioned take place in some states and it were caught, people could be arrested. It's that serious In the drum corps world, we can say parents should know better. In the world outside of drum corps, directors and staff would be responsible, no questions asked. My guess is that while the wild behavior may exist, it probably does not happen all the time and it probably does not happen with every corps. It's also a problem that can be easily remedied. No kid goes through the rigors of auditions, the sacrifices of winter camps, the loss of summer freedom not to mention income, the 50-60 hours per week of practice, and the challenges of life on the road for a few minutes of hoopla on the bus. That can happen without leaving home. Corps that allow minors to march have to set rules and enforce them, and if kids know it is a matter of staying in the corps, they'll follow the rules. Most kids who march love the corps too much to screw things up. Too much is at stake and too many sacrifices have been made.

You are right about Crown, and Academy follows a similar model. I also spoke with people from Colts' Cadets in Indy after the parade. What a great organization and what an experience they offer the kids. Other great examples are Music City--we'll be hearing from them in the future and I've got to give a shout out for Blue Saints and Les Stentors. The three corps were young and performed their hearts out. Les Stentors travelled to Indy by school bus! My understanding is their drum major and some of the older members want to revitalize drum corps in Canada. I was also encouraged to see so many age outs from Open Class corps. Open class is not just a feeder for World Class as some claim but a category of its own. We need more Open Class opportunities for competition but we also need competitive and performance opportunities for smaller corps that do not fit in this category. Parades are fine, but more is needed to sustain interest. What might be helpful is a list of non-competitive local corps at the junior level. Local units could plan competitions providing that travelling would not be a problem. If opportunities for fraternity and competition existed, things could grow and develop. It would be a small start, but a beginning.

I got to see each corps perform, beginning with Blue Saints on Thursday morning and ending with Blue Devils on Saturday night. For me, Les Stentors de Sherbrooke deserves attention. Les Stentors de Sherbrooke is a little corps with a big heart. I know they've been around for a while and I've seen them in Boston area July 4th parades, but I've never seen them in competition. The average age is probably fifteen or sixteen. They travelled to Indy by school bus. Some of the instruments the corps used are probably older than the kids who played them. They had the time of their lives! Their show was pretty solid for a group their size and kids that age. The parade was their forte which they knew it and you could sense their pride. As all the horn lines assembled to play "Simple Gifts" Les Stentors fit right in, and as the corps were dismissed, they shook the hands of others corps members and in a thick French Canadian accent said "See you next year." If drum corps is going to have a revival in Canada, I hope this group leads the charge along with Blue Saints.

I remembered this post and wondered if he ever marched as I watched finals. If he marched with Surf, I saw him in Lawrence, Lynn, Quincy, Allentown and three times in Indy: two in competition and once in the parade. Surf was great this year and I'm sure that it's only the beginning of better years. He also learned to be a bit of a "trooper" (not a reference to a Casper, Wyoming corps) with a broken bus and water mane break at the host site in Indy. All learning experiences.

I too was at finals, and semis, and prelims. I was also at East Rutherford and Allentown and I saw you earlier in the season--at the July 4th Parade in Wakefield, MA and at CYO Nationals. I loved each performance: the show was fast paced, exciting, difficult, and the work you did to get the show to where it was for finals is phenomenal. Perhaps saying you are loved by the fans is a bit cliché and may not always be consoling, but there is one crowd you particularly impressed--the high school kids. For them, you provided an example of hard work and excellence and probably some inspiration. They may bring that back to their high school music programs and may even consider auditioning for a corps. That's the crowd that drum corps has to reach if we want the activity to continue, and that you did. To all the age-outs, thank you. To all who plan on returning, rest for a bit but only a bit. Auditions will be here before you know it.

I think the list provided in this post is accurate. In 1980, less than a point separated first from fourth. This was one of DCI's most exciting years. Most believed the title would go to 27th. Breidgemen may have done the performance of their history that night, and Spirit's emotional closer in memory of Jim Ott's passing was one of drum corps' most emotionally charged moments. I still believe 27th should have won that evening and I know that Blue Devils' fans don't agree. My guess is that there are some who believe Bridgemen should have won and Spirit fans may feel the same loyalty towards Spirit, but to be fair neither Spirit nor Bridgemen topped Blue Devils or 27th that year.

My vacation this year started with the Lawrence show (I live minutes away so it was not a drive). I then went to Allentown, East Rutrherford, and finished in Indy. It was my first trip to Indy, and I will have to say I thought Lucas Oil worked well and the food prices were reasonable as compared with East Rutherford. It was a great venue for the souvenir booths and sponsors, which given today's economic woes has to be taken into account. I knew prelims would be sparse as the day began, but it was not as filled as I would have expected. Friday's attendance was better, and in my section (140's) finals was pretty full, but there were plenty of empty seats. The interesting things is that the seats were sold. My understanding is that corps buy blocks of tickets and then resell them. I know I purchased my tickets through a corps. So from DCI's perspective, the seats were not empty unless the corps can return unsold tickets, which is probably unlikely. My recommendation: If you are going to Indy next year, buy from a corps first. You'll get great seats and you'll be supporting the corps. If the corps does not have the tickets you want, then go to DCI where you'll be directed to Ticketron.

I've read this thread from time to time over the past few days and one thing is clear--the Blue Devils' show was not a fan favorite. As one who was in the stands in Indy and Allentown this year, I will agree that the concept was not audience friendly and at times the show was bizarre and a bit confusing. I also know there were moments in the show with incredible impact. While it looked hodgepodge at times, looks can be deceiving. It was executed incredibly well. I can't see the perfect scores they received in Indy, and it wasn't a full point better than Crown last night, but the elements that were good were spot-on. It is not a show that will transfer to Blu-Ray/DVD well and people who saw it Live Stream rather than in person probably have reason to scratch thier heads. It wouldn't surprise me if I scratch my head even more when the DVD is released, but I'll probably find myself watching BAC, Crown, Phantom, Spirit, SCV, Bluecoats, Crossmen, Madison, and Cadets over and over anyway. I don't think we have to worry about where the Blue Devils go, everyone will follow. While the Blue Devils are the best at winning, have they really been the trend setters? If we look back, the first corps that changed everything would have to have been the Bridgemen in 1976. Placement? 6th. SCV's asymetrical drill in 1980. Placement? 7th. Cadets frist year with Zingali was 1982. Placement? 3rd. Spirit changed horn arrangements and they never won a title. 27th and Phantom changed the way guards are used, but 27th never won a title (still a sore subject to 27th fans) and Phantom had to wait a while. The trend setters rarely if ever win, so while I might question judging this year and wonder why BD won over Crown, I am not worried that Blue Devils "Cabaret Voltaire" will be copied by any corps or that the show will begin a "Neo-Dada" explosion in drum corps.

I predict DrumManTx will not have enough time to write as many DCP posts next summer as he did this summer because he'll be marching!

I returned to my hotel from Lucas Oil Stadium about an hour ago. It was quite a show. I would have loved to have seen the gold go to Crown, and it can and will be argued that Crown should not be the runners' up, but I also can see why Blue Devils won. Both shows had title potential. My preference is for what Crown did, and I will have to be honest, BD's tribute to "Dada" was not my taste, but BD did what they attempted to do, and they nailed their show and that's what competition is all about--doing what has to be done to win. However, the Crown/BD rivalry is not all that happened. Phantom's show really came together as the season ended, Cadets were visibly disappointed and I can understand why since they topped both Phantom and Crown at different times this season, but they shouldn't have been. Their show was one of the feel good shows of the evening and one of the most entertaining shows of the year. They can also march well and the color guard always moves. Both Santa Clara and Madison have their stride back. I'd watch SCV next year and to those in the Spring were predicting Madison would probably not make finals and their best years were yesteryears, you may need to do some rethinking. My favorites, Boston Crusaders gained ground this evening and it w s great to see Crossmen back where they belong. I really enjoyed Bluecoats and their staff and the parents I met in Indy seem really nice people, but that has nothing to do with tonight's show, just an aside. Spirit didn't have the best show this evening, but it was still respectable and "Luck Be A Lady" reminded me of the style of Spirit in 79 and 80, that lush sound you just can't seem to get enough of, and my guess is that we'll have more next year. Not quite BK's and Cavies year but they ended it well. Now one other note: I saw one of the most moving moments in drum corps not at finals, but at the parade. For most corps it's a fun way to end the season, for Blue Stars it must have seemed like the longest mile. Their disappointment was real, but they are such a class act and did a great job. You already have quite a few fans, but I think you gained more today.

I agree that disliking the current BD show is not hating the Blue Devils, or it should not be the same, however, people have been spewing venom about the Blue Devils for years. I've been following drum corps since 1975 or so, and there have been all kinds of comments about the Blue Devils, win or loose. I'm not a huge Blue Devils fan. They rarely play to my tastes, but I can be objective. I know what they do is difficult, I know work hard to perfect it, and they know how the competitive aspect of shows works and knowing how to win is part of competition. Also, in reagrds to Indy. I've been at prelims and semis, and very few people stay in their seats for each show. Some just watch their favorites. Some move to better seats when their favorite corps is performing. I think I've had different people in front of for just about each performance. People leaving for the Blue Devils performance may not be hate of the show or corps. I also haven't seen the rabid Crown fans for that matter. Whatever the results of tonight's show will be, the closest I will come to booing is "blooing" when Bluecoats appear.

There's a bumper sticker popular in Boston that reads "I root for the Red Sox and anyone who beats the Yankees." I believe there is a similar one in Baltimore that reads I root for the Orioles and anyone who beats the Yankees." I'm thinking the same sentiment may hold true for those who hate the Blue Devils. I'm basing this on what I've experienced in Indy. I'm sitting in the BAC block, but tonight there were several Crown parents and fans in the area. They were polite during BD's show even though they went ballistic over Crown's show which is to be expected. Also, Crown's souvenir booth is next to Blue Devils and missiles are not launched at each other. Yes they make their loyalties known, but that's what a rivalry is all about. I'm not being "pie in the sky" here. I don't expect Crown to sing "All You Need Is Love" with the Blue Devils regardless of what happens tomorrow any more than I expect a 27th Lancer who marched in 1980 to say "I love that Blue Devils 1980 show." Madison will probably not have a bromance with Cavies. Blue Stars may not be feeling the love for Crossmen right now. Rivalries are one thing, rude behavior is an all-together different matter. So are these people really die-hard Crown fans or are they people who just love to hate the Blue Devils?

My hotel and the hotel next door are both filled with drum corps fans. Yesterday on the morning news, there was a list of "things to do" in Indianapolis. the announcer said "If you like music, Drum Corps International is in town for a competition." Talk about an understatement. For breakfast this morning, I went to the Cracker Barrel across the street. It was busier than usual. The waitress told me it was because of a marching band show in the city. If people only knew the excitement they were missing. I'm not sure I'd limit shifting to the top 4. SCV is getting closer to Cadets, Cadets won't take placing behind Phantom lightly, and even if Crown doesn't take home the title, they're going to want to prove they can beat Blue Devils at least once. Both Madison and BAC will want to show that beating Cavies earlier in the season was not a fluke, Spirit has a bone to pick with Blue Knights and speaking of bones, Crossmen have to make the top 12 tonight if they want to be in finals tomorrow. Also, we can't forget Oregon Crusaders who will want to show how they fare in World Class, and Cascades, Mandarins, and Spartans could be interesting. It should be a great show.

Let's keep things in perspective as far as Jersey Surf is concerned. Last year Surf placed 25th at prelims, this year they placed 20th. They also topped four corps who topped them last year. With the exception of the Crossmen, no other World Class corps has made as much progress this year. Jersey Surf does have an entertaining show, but it also has a show that is improved over last year's show, not an easy accomplishment. No they are not at the level of the Bridgemen, but "Land of Make Believe" was part of the 1976 and 77 shows, and "In the Stone" was part of 80 and 81's show, 80 being the year they placed highest at DCI. For Surf to be at this level, they would have to be placing as high as Vanguard, Bluecoats, Phantom, and Cadets. I've never heard Surf claim they are at this level. As far as band arrangements of music is concerned, I followed drum corps and played in a band "back in the day," the arrangements of "In the Stone" and "Land of Make Belive" were Bridgemen originals. Bands copied Bridgemen. Surf has managed to give us a great show, but they've accomplished far more. They've gained new fans, generated interest in the corps, and has shown that entertainment has a role in drum corps. Now, as far as judging is concerned, I was at prelims yesterday and I would say quite a few corps have some justified gripes with judges: Spirit of Atlanta, Crossmen, Boston Crusaders, Madison Scouts, Colts, Colts Cadets, Music City, and Pioneer. Cavies should make sure that all the judges yesterday are on their Christmas card list, Blue Knights should be showering the judges with thank you gifts. We'll have to see what today brings.

I thought Crosmen would have placed at least 12th tonight, however, I can't say I totally disagree with the judging in this situation since Crossmen and Blue Stars were so close. For me, the surprise was Blue Knights. I had a hard time believing they placed above Spirit, and would have thought they would have placed 13th. I was obviously way off. I do love BK's closer, but the horns do not play as much as I would expect and I thought they started off rather timidly.

I am in Indy and I didn't notice some of the errors mentioned in this thread. Perhaps the camera picked up things the Big, Live, and Loud crowd saw due to close ups. I felt I saw a much better show than the one I saw in Allentown and I thought that was a great show. Overall the horn line was stronger and the guard seemed to add "new tricks." There were some small errors that may have made a difference. I will say Blue Devils had a very good night, but their show may be as good as it is going to get. It may still happen for Crown As far as those who are seeing 2009 again, as good as "The Grass is Always Greener" was, it was not as strong as "For the Common Good" and I believe 2009 was a stronger year for the Blue Devils. I'd be looking more at 2008 and replace Phantom with Crown.

I am glad that a new drum corps is beginning in Florida. It's somewhat ironic that Florida is probably one of the most represented states in the activity, but getting a corps started and the corps having longevity has been a challenge. At this point, it's still too early to know what caused Teal's demise. Lots of fingers are being pointed: management claims non-payment of dues is the cause. Former Teal Sound members and parents tell a different story. The truth is probably a combination of both sides. However, what has been said in this and many other posts would be a symptom more than a cause. If members were let off the hook or paying dues was not enforced, that's a management issue. If the corps did not enforce due payment out of fear of loosing members, that's a brand issue. My concern with Teal Drum Corps as opposed to Teal Sound--it may be too similar to the old corps. As I look back on Teal's history, I see attempts at innovation, some of which have been controversial--remember that instrument contraption that resembled an electronic clarinet they used (I forgot the name) that made DCP posts go bonkers? They've also had questionable management choices that again filled DCP posts with often inflammatory posts, though there may have been some truth in the concerns. I'm not sure Teal was ever on solid ground or had an identity. I'm not faulting Teal here since it takes time for this to develop and the corps' history was relatively short lived. My recommendation for Teal Drum Corps would be to start at the beginning. Focus on the basics first and grow from there, don't try and replace what was lost. Get solid people in management positions, which can be some of the people who made mistakes with the old corps. We all learn from mistakes. Gain the trust of parents, members, and supporters. Decide who you want to be as a corps rather than what you want to be. If you know the who, the what will follow. Knowing who you are will also make corps members have a sense of loyalty and identity which will make stiffing the corps or giving less than 100% unlikely. Also, you may want to consider changing the name. New corps, new identity, new name.

I'm on my way to Indy, so I hope the best is yet to come, but thus far... CYO Nationals, Quincy: seeing Crown's show for the first time and knowing it could be the winner (we'll see if I'm right about this) East Coast Classic in Lawrence, MA: two moments. First, SCV's show catching everyone by surprise. This show was so similar to SCV of the 80's and 90's in quality while still being contemporary. Total surprise. Second, the hometown crowd being so excited to see our hometown heroes BAC after their western sojourn! Allentown: the performance of Surf with Bridgemen watching and then Surf joining Bridgemen alumni for an encore. The performances of Crown, BAC, Phantom and Spirit. Also, Troopers having a bit of a surge. Also, while not a performance, I had the opportunity to watch Cascades practice prior to the show. This group has alot of heart and performed an underappreciated show. Besides, they took in a good number of Teal Sound members so I hope their good deed will be rewarded with new recruits to make the corps a bit larger. Speaking of underestimated, I love Colts' closer and the soloist at the end may be the best this year. East Rutherford: Everyone performing while we sat in wet seats. It was great to just enjoy their shows.

Don't forget $13 for a hamburger which was not as good as the one I paid $5 for at Yoccos in Allentown the night before with polite help who told me to comeback next year. Note to football fans, the prices will probably be much higher at the Super Bowl and you'll probably have to dry your own hands!

I chose the Cadets scenario, but it would not be my hill to die on, so to speak. Cadets were very strong this evening in East Rutherford, and even though it wasn't judged so there's no way of knowing what the score would have been it led me to think anything can happen. I am also still holding out hope or Crown and that Crossmen will make finals. All I know is that I'm very glad my vacation plans this year include Thursday, Friday, and Saturday in Indy!