Tim K

Don't forget $13 for a hamburger which was not as good as the one I paid $5 for at Yoccos in Allentown the night before with polite help who told me to comeback next year. Note to football fans, the prices will probably be much higher at the Super Bowl and you'll probably have to dry your own hands!

I chose the Cadets scenario, but it would not be my hill to die on, so to speak. Cadets were very strong this evening in East Rutherford, and even though it wasn't judged so there's no way of knowing what the score would have been it led me to think anything can happen. I am also still holding out hope or Crown and that Crossmen will make finals. All I know is that I'm very glad my vacation plans this year include Thursday, Friday, and Saturday in Indy!

First, to all the corps who performed tonight, thanks for an enjoyable evening. Though it would have been understandable if the show was canceled, it would have been a major disappointment, and I'm sure that at this point of the season, all of the corps could have used some down time. So thanks again for a great night and putting your fans first. To the Blue Devils, Bluecoats, a d Cavaliers--I enjoyed your shows without as many of the sound effects, so for all the naysayers out there, these corps can perform just fine based on talent alone. Also, it was great to see so many young people at show this evening. Judging from all the school buses in the parking lot, I wondered whether there was any school in New York and New Jersey that didn't send a bus load. Hopefully they'll fill the ranks of drum corps in the near future.

As a one-time clarinetist who wanted to make the drum corps jump in high school, I'm sure I would have said yes at one time simply because I wanted to be in a drum corps, but I think there are solid reasons to say no. While some would argue that adding woodwinds would be creating a band, this may be the weakest argument now that B-flat rather than Key of G instruments are the norm. One major reason is look. For me, the look of all silver brass instruments adds something and you wouldn't have that look. Second, woodwinds add nuances that are great musically, but part of what amazes me is how a drum corps can make brass arrangements of works that are usually arranged for orchestras which would include strings and woodwinds. I love woodwinds, but I don't think I'd love them in drum corps.

I can finally add to a Crown/BD discussion after seeing both live. The difference between Crown in July and today is astounding, and I think they're almost there, the show has the look and feel of a championship show. It needs a smidge more polish, but not more tweaking. As far as Blue Devils, I think there have been too many naysayers as far as their current show is concerned. I will agree with those who do not like the voiceovers, but their show is complicated but performed with finesse, which is no small feat, and the show does what it hopes to accomplish. It's polished, it's well done, but I don't find it electrifying and this is where Crown in my opinion has the advantage. I think East Rutherford tomorrow night will be exciting. For those who see parallels between last year and 2008, I'm in your camp.

I agree the post show was stronger musically, but I think that's often the case. All they have to concentrate on is music. I also loved their version of "The Star Spangled Banner" they'll be playing at Fenway tomorrow night. I was also told that while we were enjoying the post show, the scores were available from DCI.

I have a feeling that at high school band shows this fall, there will be many groups doing one part of Surf's show or another. My guess is it will be "Party Rock Anthem." It's interesting, when I was in high school, our drill instructors told us we were doing the "same thing" as the Bridgemen, or at times 27th Lancers. Of course we never looked like either the Bridgemen or 27th, but that's another story. I do agree that this year, Surf will be the most inspirational. I'd also add another underrated corps to the inspirational category--the Colts. They also have a show that is of good quality and can entertain a mixed crowd, including those not familiar with drum corps. I already downloaded the San Antonio show, and I've been listening to both Surf and Colts as I drive. "Party Rock Anthem" is great for highway driving because you just want to push the gas pedal. Colt's "All By Myself" for me is this year's guilty pleasure and the young soloist in this number may be the strongest of all corps, even those who have placed much higher.

I live about five minutes from the stadium in Lawrence. Beautiful morning sky. The weather predictions on my homepage say passing thundershowers in the afternoon. 6 PM has a nice sunny spot, so I'd make the trek.

I googled Chicken Queen because, quite frankly I'm intrigued. However the results came up showing this thread, as well as all kinds of restaurants named Chicken Queen, so my question is this: Will a real young woman be crowned Chicken Queen and do we bow to Her Majesty, or will the chicken queen have lots of feathers, think marigold petals and crushed corn are treats, and instead of a crown, become a become a feast for the evening?

Jersey Surf's soliciting finds for fuel does not mean that if the funds were not raised, the tour would have to end, or worse, the corps would be stranded. There was no desperation in the pitch or claims of insolvency. My hunch is that they are raising funds for fuel this year, so that the funds already allocated can be used for other purposes. Another clue would be looking at the donor amounts. There were enough donations to make them pass the 50% mark before they began soliciting, or at least it appeared that way. Non-profits often find a major donor first because it builds the confidence of other people giving and shows the organization is sound. To me, it's no different than the "Old School Challenge" and I have yet to see a post that claims Madison, BAC, or BK will be hitchhiking home if funds are not raised. Spending a good portion of the preseason hyping people about a show, raising funds while momentum for the corps is high, selling Banana Stixs at a dollar a pop, knowing people will probably say keep the change, coupons for discounts on t-shirts all point to a good team that knows how to market a non-profit. If it's true about what some have said regarding dues, I have all the respect in the world for a kid who struggles to pay and may do so in dribs and drabs or with sponsors, less so for those who stiff a corps, but if thy stiff Jersey Surf this year, they probably won't have a home next year. A local band director told me about ten of his brass players are going to East Coast Classic just to meet Surf staff and inquire about next year, so deadbeats may find there's no room.

It's funny, I just added East Rutherford to my calendar. I'll be in Allentown where I hope to see Crown win, but just in case they do not, I don't want to miss it if it happens in East Rutherford. I've seen Crown, and I downloaded the San Antonio soundtrack so I've heard Blue Devils. I do feel that Crown has the strongest brass book. I do not know percussion well enough to judge but the consensus is it is their weakest link. I do believe Crown's show appears to be that of a champion, but a great deal has to have been cleaned since I saw them in early July and judging from what I've read, this has been happening. When we look at scores, there have been some rather close calls, though in two major competitions the point spread has been a bit wide. Still, I think it can happen if Crown focuses on doing their best, being competitive, and wanting it bad enough. However, Blue Devils are formidable competitors and overall, they have never thrown a competition away. Even years they do not win and placed a slow as 5th, they still do the best show they can do with the talent and material available. In the end, if Blue Devils win, I think it can be attributed to the work they did in late June/early July perfecting their show. Crown competed in more shows earlier on, and established themselves as the corps to beat. Blue Devils stayed on the sidelines and practiced. This is strategy and it may be paying off. Now as we're winding down the season and wondering what will happen, many of us are probably watching the Olympics. We should be paying close attention to what happens in the judged sports: gymnastics and diving. How many times have we seen someone doing something somewhat basic and defeating someone who may be more gifted? Some have argued it happened in men's gymnastics already. Crown may have the better show and may own the hearts of many fans. Blue Devils show may not make sense to all people. The judges may personally enjoy one show over the other, but in the end, whether a show meets the criteria is what matters and up to now, Blue Devils have done a better job at that when they've faced Crown. We'll see on Friday whether this continues.

The noise and the excitement and at times, comments from the crowd are part of what make a show a show. A drum corps show is not an evening at the opera or symphony. Crowd excitement is to be expected. That being said, no comment should ever be so loud or disruptive that it interferes with a corps' performance or the entertainment of the people in the stands and it's my guess that this is this is what the original poster has in mind. Rude, boorish behavior would never be acceptable. As far as studio recordings or performances without an audience, I suppose it's a matter of taste, but I'm not so sure either would be effective. The audience and atmosphere are both part of the show. I can remember watching Star of Indiana when they visited Boston at some point in the 90's. They did a dry run with uniforms and I was not impressed. When I saw them later that evening it was a different experience.

Last year at East Coast Classic, I saw Blue Devils perform and they won the show, even though it was somewhat flawed and their "House that was a home" that night and looked more like a "House Divided" (a structural issue) but it was easy to see why BD won if you knew what to look for in a show. When Cadets performed "Angels and Demons" I recall thinking it was a better show, but it would not be fine tuned enough in time for Indy with the hectic schedule ahead. A week later I watched "Big, Live, and Loud." The carpenters did their job with the house and BD's show was nearly flawless, or so it appeared. Cadets were a different corps. My guess is that Blue Devils will storm their way into Allentown, East Rutherford, and Indy, and they won't be giving anything away. They never do, but that does not mean that Crown cannot win. Many people believe that Crown has the better show, and after seeing it earlier this month, I would agree it's a great show, but it needs some work and time is running short. Still, it can happen. Cadets and Phantom could surprise everyone too. In the end, I'm not changing my vacation plans because this year is a done deal.

They are already pretty close to goal, so to all who wished they could write a check for Teal, Forte, or Racine Scouts, now's the opportunity! Also, if you're going to East Coast Classic, Allentown, or Indy, remember the Banana Stixs are a fundraiser too, and they're more than happy to accept more than a buck as a donation.

Glad you corrected your post. I'd hate to think of a former Crusader sitting alone at Veteran's Memorial Stadium in Lawrence next Saturday night! BTW: I purchased the download of the San Antonio show and played some of it while driving last week. As BAC began, I happened to be sitting in some traffic on 495 and saw the stadium and "Pines of Rome' was playing. I couldn't help but think we'll be seeing a great show on Thursday.

I enjoy Crown, I would love to see a new champion this year, not out of any dislike for the Blue Devils, but it's been a while since we've had a different corps win, and I think it's time, so long so the corps is deserving. Crown could be that corps. I'm also not sure DCP has a love affair with Crown. Last year's "Rach Star" show was panned time and time again as nothing more than a good performance by a high school band, an ultimate DCP insult. Chances are if you look back far enough, you'll see posts that claim their 2009 show "The Grass is Always Greener" was a fluke and finished second was due to a less than top notch performance by competitors and this past winter some predicted Crown had peaked last year and would plummet this year. Love of Crown may be due more to a dislike of Blue Devils, and we've seen thread after thread where the Blue Devils and their show designers are practically responsible for global warming, unrest in the Middle East, and any other evil of our world. Now as far as Crown is concerned, for many years my only exposure was DVD, and I was indifferent at best. I don't recall when I saw them perform live for the first time, but that made a huge difference for me. I'm thinking the same could hold true for others. I've noticed in other threads that those who have seen Crown live are scratching their heads as to why Crown has not yet topped Blue Devils. People who watch live stream can say exactly why. While all corps are better live, some need to be experienced live to be appreciated, and this may be the case with Crown.

Unless the announcer says at the time scores are read "All those who would like to boo the judges' decision tonight, please boo now" and then says "All those who would like to boo the Blue Devils, please boo now," there is no way to distinguish whether the jeers are for the judges or the corps. So if in the deep recesses of your heart, you are booing a judge, it will still come across as booing the kids. Since most shows take place in an athletic arena, it can feel like a sporting event and the judges are referees or umpires, but a drum corps show is not an athletic event even if the corps members are as good as fine athletes and in top physical condition, and unlike an ump or referee, we don't know the opinions until the show is over. Booing a judge's decision is not the same thing as verbally disagreeing with the call of a referee in a basketball game or an ump in baseball. Withholding applause may be the better option.

I agree that PR seems to love having someone die in their shows, and no pun intended, it may be overkill (who am I kidding, pun intended). As non-violent as I like to think I am, I'm kind of partial to it, but in this year's show it may be warranted: you can't tell the story of "Turandot" without killing the Prince of Persia at the beginning and Liu at the end.

Blue Devils have been the corps that people love to hate and this has been the case since 1977 when Blue Devils won their second DCI title. In 1978 the applause for Blue Devils 3rd place finish was louder than any other placement. In 2008, it was hard to tell if the crowd was happier for Phantom or happy Blue Devils were 2nd. As I was thinking about 2008, I can't help but be reminded of the rivalries that year. Phantom owned the hearts of many as Crown has this year, yet until finals the Blue Devils charged on. I can't help but wonder if the same thing will happen this year with Crown and Blue Devils. Now love or hate Blue Devils, they did win by a healthy margin this evening, more than I would have predicted. I thought it would be closer and that Crown could have the advantage since they didn't compete yesterday. This of course is speculation, but from my point of view, I'm not sure that it'; superior music or a far greater show that is the reason for the Blue Devils victory. I also don't believe it is favoritism by the judges. I think what we're seeing is strategy paying off. Blue Devils know everyone wants to defeat them, but they also know which corps are most likely to do so. They know Cadets are full of surprises, as they demonstrated last year. They know Phantom has a show that could have amazing pull and intensity at season's end. Crown's hungry for a title, and they know Crown can do it. Instead of extensive early season tours, Blue Devils worked at perfecting their show and it seems to have caught competitors somewhat off guard, especially Crown. All this makes me wish I could be in Atlanta tomorrow night and in North Carolina on Sunday and very glad I'll be in Allentown this time next week.

We'd probably have to ask a Bridgemen alum to know for certain. While dropped equipment was a penalty, the clipboard and hat were probably considered props, so the rule about dropping a rifle, flag, drumstick, etc, should not have applied. Also things were getting more relaxed in 1979 and the antics of the Bridgemen were not new at that point, but you never know.....a timing and penalty judge that didn't have a sense of humor may have had the last laugh from time to time.

The clown in I Pagliacci (1977 and 78) or perhaps the color guard member dressed as a judge, marking tick after tick, who can't take it any more, throws her clipboard, takes off her hat, and begins to dance (1979).

While referring to Surf as Jersey Shore is an accident, perhaps a Freudian slip, some have wondered what the corps will do next year to top "Bridgemania"? Perhaps they could do a Jersey Shore tribute. Recruitment would not be a problem--it doesn't appear that you need all that much talent to be on Jersey Shore. The biggest challenge might be getting used to people trash talking them all the time because Jersey Shore does seem to be the show everyone loves to criticize. Low placement wouldn't be a problem either. They could get voted off by the judges, and claim they were only following the example of Mike "The Situation" Sorrentino when he was eliminated early on Dancing with the Stars.

I thought that a rule change had been made after Star of Indiana that a corps could not compete in World Class its first year, but I'm not sure of the accuracy of that information, though some people who post on DCP know the ins and outs of every rule of DCI. I know Star was the first corps to place in the top 12 their first year. I did check Corpsreps and Magic did compete in World Class in its first year so if DCI has a rule as I suggested, it must have been made after 1990 or Magic was an exception.

I believe that one serious issue facing Open Class Corps is lack of opportunity for local competitions due to fewer corps which may be why Open Class corps can have issues with recruitment. The national contenders have always toured. When I was growing up, we didn't see 27th Lancers, Boston Crusaders, or North Star after July 1st except when the DCI tour was in Boston. We'd see them again after DCI. While 27th, BAC, and North Star were touring, there were all kinds of local shows going on, and the corps everyone loved were the corps who had less extensive tours and competed at DCI in what was then Class A. "Drum corps nuts" as fans were sometimes called attended the great national shows in Boston: CYO Nationals and World Open, but also attended circuits shows. Both DCI shows and local shows contributed to the overall drum corps experience. Today there are about as many Open Class corps as World Class corps, and competing means traveling a great distance. For a smaller corps, this is next to impossible. Until there are more local opportunities for competition, Open Class corps have a choice of extensive fundraising to compete, or have fewer competitions which means a loss of interest among members. Now, for fans who leave when Open Class corps perform or fail to attend shows, a few weeks back I was supposed to go to an Open Class show in Manchester, NH, but something happened at the last minute and I was unable to attend. Two of the corps I missed (7th Regiment and Spartans) have been neck in neck this season, are heated rivals, and usually give all they have--in other words I missed great drum corps action. So support the major players--we love them and need them, but ignore Open Class and it may be at your own peril!

George Zingali's famous Z-pull by the 1983's Garfield Cadets deserves to be included, but many list the 1980 27th Lancers as groundbreaking, calling it George Zingali's first masterpiece, though some who marched with 27th will point to its 1979 predecessor as the one that changed drum corps.