The Cadets at Quarterfinals

[Vandal]

As I've stated before, I thought Hoppy did the right thing looking out for his corps. However, IMO he handled things a poorly (bowing, chasing down Acheson). However difficult it would have been, he should have quietly addressed the situation until he was out of the public eye. It would have been a great lesson for the kids and place him, his corps, and DCI in a better light.

That being said, I wish Hoppy would of taken some culpability in the way things turned out with the crowd and perhaps offered some sort of apology. You can rarely go wrong being a bigger person. We're on page 76 of this thread. Obviously there is some feelings and opinions being spewed here that are not at all warm and fuzzy.

BTW, even if the grass condition was perfect, lack of visibility could hurt somebody... especially if they are running toward eachother without truly knowing where they are on the field. Imagine running straight at somebody runnng at you while your eyes are closed. Scary.

Anyway, I hope those kids come out with some fire, have the time of their lives and that we never have to discuss another situation like this.

From "The Big Lebowski" -

Walter: You have got to buck up, man. You cannot drag this negative energy into the tournament.

[CuriousMe]

,snip>

GH wants the forefront. He wants his corps behind him. And when he grabs the stage, people are surprised that he is booed and his corps reaps this as well. I have never booed The Cadets, but I have never thought well of GH, not because he brings change, but that he puts himself out front. If he worked for changes like Fiedler or Gibbs, thinkgs would be different, But when you want to be a lightning rod, don't complain when you get struck.

I don't think he ever has. From my limited experience with the man, I don't think he much cares what most folks think him. He does care when the corps gets boo'd....but not enough to put them in a dangerous situation.

While he would, of course, dispute the penalty.....I think that he would have taken the same actions knowing that there would be a penalty.

When you compare a 2 point penalty at Quarterfinals (not even semi's or finals) or putting the corps in any kind of danger, I think the choice is clear.

And as for those who think the kids knew ahead of time because they quickly formed into a block....come on, that's just silly. The only proof you have of this is the fact that they listened to Hoppy and formed into a block without asking questions? What were they supposed to do, have a conversation about it mid-field?

Also the notion that the corps has been doing the same drill for months so they don't need hashes is just as silly. So, since you've been driving for years, can we now do away with line lines on the interstate? And heck, everyone on each side of the interstate is moving in the same direction....I still want the lane lines. I haven't marched drill in twenty years, but I know the corps I marched in needed hash marks at the end of the season as well.

Peace,

Cathie

[jjeffeory]

How was that a snotty remark? He said the Cavies march an impressive drill...and that the time they spend on the ground would hasten the blurring of the hashes. I did not see one negative comment on the Cavies.

Oh please! You insult everyone on here who read the comment. Of course it was a snoddy remark! Gosh, mind games are really old news around here lately. Do we need to rehash the whole "the Cavaliers roll around and frollick all over the field for the whole show and don't really do anything hard" thread again? Please, it's really old.

Let's just say you really like the Cadets and hate the Cavaliers and be done with it. Okay?

[IRMO]

From George Hopkin's blog

"If you are reading ... I hope you will cheer wildly for the Cadets.

These kids had a tough time last night ... and I would think they wonder what is in store?

More verbal abuse? More people screaming over the corps? More unkindness?

I am sorry to say ... yes, there will be some.

But I would like to think their are those who support these kids for what they do, and for what they went through."

Watching how the crowd was last night, knowing how friggin' well the young men and women of the Cadets have been performing their show, remembering what it's like to be in the last two days of a drum corps season and now reading this... It makes me wish I could be there just to cheer my guts out when they come into the stadium tonight.

Me, too.

I hope all of the Cadets fans in the stands AND all of the people who may not be but witnessed the rudeness last night will cheer just a bit louder. They deserve it.

[Tone Quality Matters]

From Hop's Blog today -- Sort it out for yourselves - If it went down this way, then that's fine, but this isn't indicative of the behavior we saw last night on live broadcast

I also say this. I think the Cadets show is great, and I believe they got a shot at winning this thing. I wwish nothing but the best for all corps out there, including the Cadets

Well ... I am not sure what to say.

At this juncture, most know the crux of the story. And frankly, the 1000 or so people who come to read this page pale to the numbers who read other pages, or who are here in the stands at Paadena. SO ... what I say, I am not sure will matter

But ...

I did what I felt was best for the Cadets. I asked for the hashes to be placed on the field. There were none. The contest director agreed and we departed the field so that the field could be adjusted. I did not pull the corps, I did not threaten ... I asked for safety reasons the field be repaired.

I was not thinking of competition. I was thinking of marching at 210 beats per minute backing into a frint, and what might happen if the members could not get a bearing of where they were on the field. And thankfully, at the time, DCI and their team were supportive.

I knew when I asked for hashes the stands would erupt. I am not a fool. I know people do not care for me, as I lead a corps that is does things differently. I know some people think very unkind things of me.

That said ... I was not expecting the cruelty. I was not expcting the words of venom. I was not expecting the ridcule. I was .... amazed and dismayed. Not for me ... for the Cadets. For these fabulous people and performers.

Alas ... what happened .... happened.

We are out working .... hars! for tonight.

We will not place 5th in brass and guard tonight ... not going to happen. I really do believe are are better than that ... indeed ... the oorps is pretty spectacular.

So ..... who knows what might give. Who knows what might happen?

If you are reading ... I hope you will cheer wildly for the Cadets.

These kids had a tough time last night ... and I would think they wonder what is in store?

More verbal abuse? More people screaming over the corps? More unkindness?

I am sorry to say ... yes, there will be some.

But I would like to think their are those who support these kids for what they do, and for what they went through. As the story goes --- we are all human beings ... even me :-)

[euponitone]

That was an uncalled for attack on the Cavaliers (again). <**>

What does their "spending a lot of time on the ground" (geesh) have to do with anything? Like I said, why do the cadets need markings more than any other group when the cadets guide all the time, riiiight?

You people are sick. I have openly complimented the cavaliers acrobatics, yet you choose to find something that isnt there. If you cant understand why the cavaliers sliding to the ground on top of field markings would have a negative effect on the clarity of said field markings, than im not sure you are even worthy of the time it took me to right this response. Of course you couldnt even follow your own advice for 2 seconds and had to insert a jab at the cadets that made no sense...get a clue. <**>

Edited August 11, 2007 by euponitone

[euponitone]

Oh please! You insult everyone on here who read the comment. Of course it was a snoddy remark! Gosh, mind games are really old news around here lately. Do we need to rehash the whole "the Cavaliers roll around and frollick all over the field for the whole show and don't really do anything hard" thread again? Please, it's really old.

Let's just say you really like the Cadets and hate the Cavaliers and be done with it. Okay?

Hey bud, here's a post from a month ago, where ironically enough, i was replying specifically to you. You tell me if it sounds like senseless bashing, mind games, and snobbery, and I'll tell you what i think of your memory loss :P

QUOTE(jjeffeory @ Jul 16 2007, 10:21 PM)

The most amusing part of this thread is not Truman, who is doing something akin to "Planar Analysis". Good job to you for taking the time to sit down and critically think about the shows! Of course, I know that you're biased against The Green Machine, so there's going to be a negative subjectivity to your critique. The most interesting aspect of this volley of posts is the "Cadets" people on here who have been after the Cavies' show all this year! You guys are doing a really good job of cheerleading for your corps this year by ripping on the Green Team! Good for you! You're doing a better job than the Blue Devils Cheerleading Squad. I'm not going to comment much more on this thread except to say that when euponitone was first complaining about the Cavies show this year, I listened to his "concerns".

I then saw the Cavalier's live.... I came to the conclusion that their show was just fine. It was better than fine, it was fantastic! The ending I saw was a bit weak, but I knew they would be changing that soon enough...

The funniest thing about the Cavalier bashing this year is that they have chosen to play jazzy, accesible music. People are getting onto them because they're doing things visually that complement the music. Perhaps they should have done wind sprints while playing 16th note runs all over the place? Well, you can't please everyone. Have fun with the debate!

Truman, I am still interested in your analysis of the other corps. I may not agree with your assessment, but I appreciate the time, energy, and passion you're putting into this.

Jedicadet05 & Euponitone... I appreciate your love for your corps. BTW, do they still serve those Butter flavored Crisco, Grilled-Cheese sandwiches for dinner? MMMmmmmmmmm.

They make the grilled cheese with mayo now....i helped out on the truck once, pretty nutso. As far as being here to tear down the cavaliers, and somehow make my corps seem better, I'm afraid thats not the case.

First, you compliment their music. Its on the record that I have complimented their music. Its my favorite cavies music book in years, probably since 03 or maybe 2000. Its melodic, and I actually find myself singing it from time to time (i especially enjoy whistling the openning solo, it makes me feel cool and mellow as I wander around campus). Its very accessable and fun, and while I dont know much about billy joel, I enjoy it.

As far as my 'ripping' on the corps, perhaps you need to redefine what that is. I've mentioned many times that the cavaliers were at one point, my 1st or 2nd favorite drum corps. The only reason I choose the cadets over them was that the cadets had camps an hour away. I dont really regret the decision now obviously, but the fact is that I have a cavalier audition packet sitting in my room at home somewhere. I even have the same number of rings that I would have had if I had choosen to march cavies.

One of my favorite shows of theirs is 2003. If you followed the season at all that year, you would know that we were 4 points down at one point, only to whittle it down to about a tenth on finals night. If I were to be bitter about anything, it would be that corps, and that year - yet my preferences have nothing to do with emotions or bias. I thought they were good, and so to me, they were good, simple as that. I also enjoy the 05 show more than most people, although of course i wouldnt say they should have won, but I like it.

Basically my beef with the cavies started around last year. In a very controversial move, hop took us back inside the alamodome after our performance, to let us see for ourself what the 'big dogs' were doing. As i sat there watching that show, I honestly didnt get what was so great about it. I felt even worse, seeing it at semis before the ageout ceremony. Last but not least, I watched it during the classic countdown this year. Seeing that show, back to back, with phantom from this year, and madison 95, really made it clear to me what I did and did not like.

I was honestly hoping this year would be different for them, but so far I'm not seeing it. There's still time I guess, and they have added some things to the first half of the show that I thought were on the right track, however the second half left me very flat. It seemed like there was 3-4 minutes between the end of pressure and the ballad where they didnt really play.

Unfortunately, I can not say that the Cavaliers show is 'fantastic', for in my mind its not. Believe it or not, I wish they would wow me like they used to. If you think that I would rather criticize than complement other corps, then you are very mistaken. Truth be told, Im even less of a BD fan than I am a cavie fan, yet I havent made one critical post of them all summer, because well....i think their show is pretty good. I tell it like it is (for me), no agenda, no nothing. Im not naive enough to think that my posting will somehow give my corps extra tenths on finals night, however, I have been thanked by people via PM for making this board more friendly to the cadets this summer, and for being thoughtful and polite in my posts. If you feel like I've been tearing down another corps, I'm sorry, but this obviously means a lot to me, otherwise I wouldnt be around.

Please note that I cant speak for every cadet person on these boards, but I hope this gives you some insight into my mind. My information about my feelings towards the cavaliers pre-06 has been brought up before, and many folks would probably be happy to confirm that it is indeed, true.

edit....i'll find some more in case you arent convinced....

Heres another one...I compliment the cadets for a more 'cavalier' drill, and say how glad i am that they were able to adapt some of their superior ideas....but wait...there's more...

from a cavie fmm

Well, if it's not the Cavaliers, I would definitely say it's the Cadets. I love the move where the two circles are spinning in the rectangle moving across the field.

from me -

When i first saw the openning drill to symphonic movement at spring training (on paper only), my first words were....wow, kinda looks like cavies drill. In a good way

Im glad jeff was able to get away from some of the old zingali ideas. As great as it was, it wasnt getting the credit in todays judging climate.

Edited August 11, 2007 by euponitone

[Gator Eagle]

Hopkins is a tool. Anyone that didn't expect the "venom" as he states must be living under a freaking rock. He is the Michael Vick of DCI.

[Tekneek]

Hopkins is a tool. Anyone that didn't expect the "venom" as he states must be living under a freaking rock. He is the Michael Vick of DCI.

Michael Vick? Seems more like a Steinbrenner perhaps. Not that he is getting rich or anything, but that he is the head of a successful organization and appears to insert himself into the operations much more than others in similar positions (and also represents some things about the activity that a significant amount of people don't like).

Edited August 11, 2007 by Tekneek

[jwillis35]

I thought the crowd reaction last night at semis was much better for the Cadets. The crowd seemed into them, and the ovation after the show was big and sincere. I think everyone cleared their heads, came out and supported all the corps, and definitely gave the Cadets a warm reception when they entered the field. And I think there is no denying that the Cadets are one of the very best out there this year.

I don't think we need to argue about the hash mark issue anymore. It's over. We are not going to agree on everything. Some are asking why the Cadets even needed the hash marks. Maybe they are different, maybe they do, it is not our place to say why they teach a certain way or if they should teach that way, and it is not our place to ridicule them for utilizing something that is SUPPOSED to be there anyway. If your corps doesn't need them, great. Kudos to your corps. But if the Cadets do then they have a right to ask for something that was supposed to be on the field regardless. I fail to see how there can be any argument there.

Hopkins probably could have handled himself better, but it wasn't like he flipped-off the crowd or yelled back at them, or any negative gesture like that. He bowed in a humble way as to say "I know you don't like this, and I know I am the bad guy, but I have to do this."

To those who spewed venom and nasty comments, it's obvious to me that their definition of drum corps supersedes anyone else's definition, which frankly goes against the freedom to create, try, challenge, and educate by using different means and methods. They see THEIR definition as the ONLY definition, yet they fail to see that they are as closed minded and GH may be open minded. It is fine to sit on either side of the fence, but it is not OK to force others to adhere to your principles and beliefs, and for all the talk of GH and the Cadets doing that to others I fail to see corps copying them (they tend to run this course alone).

At quarterfinals it was not GH who was forcing anything, other than a field lining, it was unruly and selfish fans who were trying to force their brand of entertainment on GH, and the members of the Cadets had to listen, digest, and suffer. In the end, this is the harm when our freedoms are not guided by principles of fairness and the ability to defend one's rights even when they are not your brand of drum corps.

It's nothing more than selfishness run amuck. Some fans, no matter how good their intentions, think they know what is best for the activity and they feel they speak for the whole, and a few are willing to take it further. In reality, GH speaks only for himself and his corps (which he can do). He proposes ideas to others, and certainly has caused a stir that way, but nothing he has done has single handedly changed drum corps. His proposals must be voted on, ideas must be accepted by others who, I believe, have minds and principles of their own. For those that are unhappy with the direction of DCI, I find it funny that the blame game has pegged but one man.

JW

Edited August 11, 2007 by jwillis35