Cadets

[WWonka]

Have you not realized that having a discussion with Mike Davis about the Cadets is akin to trying to return a dead parrot to an English pet shop in a Monty Python skit?

And that was freaking hilarious...

[MikeD]

Have you not realized that having a discussion with Mike Davis about the Cadets is akin to trying to return a dead parrot to an English pet shop in a Monty Python skit?

Just fyi....I have made plenty of comments about Cadet shows I have not really cared for...2004 being a prime example...plus parts of many of the shows this century. I happen to have loved 05, most of 06, and almost all of 07 as well, more so than the total shows of 2001-2004 (though there are a few moments in them that are among my favorite moments....esp "Moondance").

Bring out your dead!

[flugelswerebugels]

Compare narration to Flugelhorns nowadays.

Flugelhorns have always been better than narration! (check my username)

[The Other Mike]

Wow - just wow!

There's something disturbing in the amount of pent up anger/frustration/bitterness you feel towards one man. Even after reading your post I still can't quite fathom why you've taken his remarks/decisions/ethics/philosophy so personally. I cannot agree with the notion that each year this man thinks of a show concept just to p*** people off. I'd like to believe your dislike for GH has something to do with the fact you love the activity so much, but I fear it's something a bit deeper than that. Nonetheless I think we get the message there is no love in your house for GH!

Yes, it's much deeper I admit it. I try to bury it and forget about some of it but when someone uses terms like " cutting edge with narration", it just brings it all back to the surface.

In a nutshell: as someone who marched and taught corps as well as teaching professionally for 30 years, drum corps as we once knew it is very dear to my heart. I was lucky enough to march corps in the late 60's early 70's where it was still a youth activity for all kids. While I was not one of the kids who was saved from the streets, I was the kid who grew up as the little kid on the steps hearing and seeing the drunken fights between middle aged, middle income parents. I joined band but was a slow learner. I joined corps and was given instruction on not only how to play and read music but in life skills.

Drum & Bugle corps USED to be about kids but has strayed far away from it's roots while in the quest for the "cutting edge". There are many people to blame for leaving the kids behind and it's NOT all the fault of any one person or even a group of people. I would bet that many people that are unhappy about the direction directed it towards Mr. Hopkins because he is so vocal about his vison of drum corps. ( remember, drum corps = marching band )

It was HIS push about the 6 or 8 supercorps and spoke about it openly. It was in an interview in a BD program ( I think it was a program) that he spoke against using weapons. In the big picture, I can "almost" agree with him, but for him to push the point because Rosie would not promote BLAST because of their use of rifles and sabers insults the hell out of me. Considering that Rosie's bodyguards for herself and her kids are armed adds insult to injury. Like the old saying: Don't pee on my leg and tell me it's raining.

Mr. hopkins has done wonderful things for the Cadets and in turn has helped bring drum corps to new levels most of us would have never dreamed of. But, at the same time, that very same path has left many kids sitting on the side of the road. It's a hard decision to make, do you do whats best for the activity to help grow it and involve more people or do you whats best to bring it to higher levels which adds to the shrinking of the activity ? I had to face that very decision regarding my band program. I made the choice to include and reach more kids. Was it because I was older and wiser ? well, I know I'm older for sure..............

In a day and age where we need to reach as many kids as possible and teach them life skills so that they can help make this a better world, drum corps has left most of the kids who need it the most, behind. Do we just say to heck with them, thats what soccer is for ?

I think it was Ryan Turner who wrote a wonderful post back around 2000-2001 warning of the perils of the " Country Club Drum Corps". It was a great post that unfortunatly has come true in too many cases.

Granted, Mr. Hopkins is a very smart man who has done wonderful for himself and the Cadets. While I didn't like the switch to multi key instruments, I am smart enough to understand both money wise, and endorsement wise, why the change was made. What a shame that one of the selling points of this was never pushed after it was passed. Wasn't it supposed to make it easier for new corps to start up by using band instruments ? Oh we forgot to tell you that to play with the big kids you have to do national touring and if you don't, you have to stay at the kiddie pool and not get paid for shows, oh and by the way, we are going to switch where you do finals so we further seperate you from the elite.

I have no problem with drum corps exploring new areas and pushing the envelope JUST AS LONG AS YOU KEEP THE FUTURE OF THE ACTIVITY IN MIND AND NURTURE IT. even the lumber comapnies understand that you must keep replanting for the future

Drum corps to me was supposed to be about the KIDS and FOR the kids. Somewhere, somehow, that seems to be forgotten. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe it was never supposed to be that way but thats not what my heart tells me.

On the issue of narration, I agree it can be a distraction. Even as a fan of the Cadets I found it's use in 2007 too much and as is only right, I will reserve my judgement for 2008. My honest opinion - I wish they wouldn't use it so much. However, my respect for the amount of talent in the 2007 Cadet's hornline was not blinkered by the over use of narration. I was still able to enjoy the power and intensity that attracted me to the corps in the first place. I sat through QF SF and finals last year and there were 2-3 programs I couldn't get into, but I didn't sulk about it and think "I hope they don't make finals because I didn't like the way..."

We all have a "right" to set out our opinions etc, but for goodness sake, lets get a sense of perspective here. These are just KIDS trying to entertain us just as I did when I marched.

Just kids trying to entertain us ? I think that comes across as a put down of the talent level of the people on the field. I give my high school band members more credit than "just kids". Just as you see me as someone holding a deep seeded grudge against Mr Hopkins, THAT was a typical response all too often used to hide behind the "kids".

Those "kids" are better athletes than most sports programs.

Those "kids' are for the most part, better educated musically than most of the band directors I know of including myself.

Those "kids" are paying as much to march drum corps as many kids pay for private school education.

This is no longer the day and age where you marched in a corps because it was the only corps in your home town. these young adults make some pretty serious decisions about who they want to audition for and who they end up marching with. These "kids" are the cream of the crop. These " kids" will be successful no matter what they do, they are not the ones who NEED our applause ( please don't misunderstand me, I DO applaude them no matter who they march with )

What about the real kids who NEED drum corps to help make them productive citizens ? What about the fat kids, the slow kids, the kids who are not perfect, the kids who can't march at 178 ?. The kids like me? what about them ? What about the kids that don't have the relatives to help pay tour fees ? what about the kids who can't afford to take a whole summer away from work ?

As it is, way too many of these young people are trying to carry a full college class load while working 2 jobs just to march. What about the rest of the "kids" ? What is being done to grow the activity ?

But as long as they keep us bickering amongst ourselves about things like narration, they think we will not notice whats happening right in front of our eyes. Look at how many kids have been excluded over the past 15 years as opposed to have many could have been INcluded.

It's just that I see so many kids that need so much help, and yet the very activity that gave ME the most help in life is so unreachable to them that it doesn't just make me sad, it p##### me off.

Hope this helps you understand a little more.

Ok, I'll shut up already and get off the soapbox.

I feel much better now, thank you.

Now what were you saying about narration ?

:troll food:

[The Other Mike]

I don't think anybody was expecting that post.

There went the root beer all over the keyboard....................

[jjeffeory]

Just about everything in drum corps has been used somewhere else in the past. So yes, in terms of DCI, using narration is still 'cutting edge'.

Woo hoo, first in DCI... It used to be that something being "cutting edge" meant it had NEVER been done before. I forget that DCI exists in a vacuum...

Seriously, it's not cutting edge to do any of this. You of all people don't usually separate DCI from marching band...

[jjeffeory]

Oh, because I happen to disagree with you, you feel free to make snarky...er...sharky...comments about me?

I happen to think there were some very effective moments in the show using the narration...my favorite being the narrator standing still and speakling his dialogue while the block moved towards him and they hit the musical and visual impact together at just the right moment.

I also liked the vocalist in 2006...she did a very good job IMO. And yes, I liked the 2005 Drumspeak. Technically I think they did their best job yet in 2007 with the mics and amps, esp when comparing them to 2005.

2005 was okay by me. 2006 was a little over the top, but at least tried to add an extra timbre to the ensemble. 2007 clashed with the ensemble sound. I could see how your one moment in 2007 could be "okay", but 2007 was way over the top. It's okay Mike, I'm really not ragging, just disagreeing....

[whitedawn]

I have no problem with drum corps exploring new areas and pushing the envelope JUST AS LONG AS YOU KEEP THE FUTURE OF THE ACTIVITY IN MIND AND NURTURE IT. even the lumber comapnies understand that you must keep replanting for the future

when did the cadets design team become the custodians of the junior corps activity? what responsibility do they have, other than to design shows?

What about the real kids who NEED drum corps to help make them productive citizens ? What about the fat kids, the slow kids, the kids who are not perfect, the kids who can't march at 178 ?. The kids like me? what about them ? What about the kids that don't have the relatives to help pay tour fees ? what about the kids who can't afford to take a whole summer away from work ?

As it is, way too many of these young people are trying to carry a full college class load while working 2 jobs just to march. What about the rest of the "kids" ? What is being done to grow the activity ?

the biggest thing i learned in drum corps is that nothing is impossible. everything you just listed is an excuse that will cause you to fail only if you let it.

everything is a choice -- everything! few people are willing to make the choices necessary to join the (cadets/blue devils/cavaliers/vanguard), let alone live their lives fully.

[The Other Mike]

when did the cadets design team become the custodians of the junior corps activity? what responsibility do they have, other than to design shows?

the biggest thing i learned in drum corps is that nothing is impossible. everything you just listed is an excuse that will cause you to fail only if you let it.

everything is a choice -- everything! few people are willing to make the choices necessary to join the (cadets/blue devils/cavaliers/vanguard), let alone live their lives fully.

I almost find it hard to believe anyone in drum corps would be so short sighted and heartless, but then I realized this is exactly what I see wrong all too often in todays drum corps. To be honest, I'm stunned and I was not talking about the Cadets design team.

If DCI is the member corps and the member corps ARE DCI, I would expect the directors not just to be the custodians, but much much more. Remember, if it wasn't for those that came before them to do what is right, would they have the cream of the crop to make their living off of ? Or do you consider todays drum & bugle corps to be the only thing that matters ?

I guess I'm really getting old when my care for the future is greater than what's in it for me today.

George, is that YOU ?

[jordsterr]

The thing is, we ALL know that. It's just too bad that Hopkins insists on doing voice narration, which is taking away from such talented performers. Think about it... without narration, we wouldn't spend all summer talking about the controversy. Instead, we could spend all that time talking about the actually performers and how great they are. It's just too bad George Hopkins can't realize that.

LOL. Exactly. Because from 1982 to 2004, that's all everyone did. Just talkin' about how great the kids were.

<sarcasm off>