The Blue Knights Have Gone Insane

[notelvis]

I can tell you for a fact that they do...

I hear you on the "What if every corps..." argument, but the fact of the matter is every corps doesn't. Because so many corps can move a crowd one way, it gives BK the freedom to try to move them another. That's one thing that makes them unique within the activity.

Fair enough. I'm glad to hear that and I've also enjoyed the respectful sharing of different viewpoints in this thread. I'll continue to watch the Blue Knights and applaud the achievements of the current generation in their membership.

[AmmerMP]

Ok everyone...

LETS ALL GO PLAY CHESS !!!

99% THINK ONE WAY...

1% THINK THE OTHER WAY....

LETS JUST LEAVE IT AT THAT AND NOT

TRY TO BEAT THIS DEAD HORSE IN THE

HEAD ANYMORE !!!

GEEZ!

[oldtimedrummer]

Fair enough. I'm glad to hear that and I've also enjoyed the respectful sharing of different viewpoints in this thread. I'll continue to watch the Blue Knights and applaud the achievements of the current generation in their membership.

I really enjoy the Blue Knights. They always offer up something new and interesting musically and they usually play very well. While I understand the OP's point, I think the Knights are sometimes underrated. Let's face it, placing in the top eight is no small feat, and the Blue Knights have been right in there for several years. They're obviously doing something right.

How about queens gambit declined?

Edited July 31, 2008 by oldtimedrummer

[wesleyrp]

Ok everyone...

LETS ALL GO PLAY CHESS !!!

99% THINK ONE WAY...

1% THINK THE OTHER WAY....

LETS JUST LEAVE IT AT THAT AND NOT

TRY TO BEAT THIS DEAD HORSE IN THE

HEAD ANYMORE !!!

GEEZ!

What dead horse? We are speaking and having civil discussions about the current 8th place drum and bugle corps in DCI and I do not see the harm in that. Actually looking back on it, those who don't like them much tend to try and sway the numbers of fans quite a bit. While I think you're somewhat kidding about 99 percent, I am not when I say that it is at least half and half 60-40, 65-35, 70-30 in favor for their design. Just my thought. Also what has yet to be said is the regional implications for drum corps. In other words drum corps has strongholds in the midwest, east, and west coasts. Therefore through more people being able to see the corps before Fan Network was available people tend to hype more on certain corps than others. I again state that since BD, SCV, Madison, Phantom and Cavaliers not only have shows that are appealing to many, they also have the added advantage of being in an area to attract a large regional fan base. (meaning the entire midwest or east, southeast) rather than the mountain regions of the middle portion of the US. BK is very popular in Texas, but so are Phantom, Madison and others that have been well established over the years. My point is to simply say that BK even with a "more fan appealing" show will still not garner the roars that those other big name corps get. It is the way it fits together geographically and the way they are followed throughout the country. Just thought I'd put my 2.5 cents in about that.

Wes P

[noblegaijin]

As an alumni I am fairly torn on how I feel about the corps. I can not say what the corps mission statement is now-a-days, so I can not respond knowledgeably about where BK wants to go competitively. It does feel like they are on the historical "island to themselves" from a score standpoint (usually a few points on either side of them), but if they are fielding a corps capable of making finals consistently, then any complaints I may have with BK kind of fall by the wayside. Considering how the membership and staff I heard was reacting in 1999 to "falling" to 7th in finals, I hardly think they are purely about the experience regardless about the placement, but that has been 10 years and, admittedly a lot can happen in the amount of time.

Quick aside here. Even though there probably is some bias in this from marching in '90, this is my favorite BK show still to date.

I do think the corps is hanging their hat too much on the heel kick, dancing, and "dark" themes to distinguish themselves from other corps. However, (and this may just be a reaction to the poor use of the word "elitist" that is currently in vogue, as well as the derogatory use of "artsy" from the good ole folk here on DCP) but I somehow think the corps isn't doing all this just for the sake of it.

I have to take that kind of anecdote, delivered from a third person, with a grain of salt. If that was indeed said however, then it would actually have shown up in a large difference in the performance vs rep subcations, reflecting a top 3 placement in the rep number. Otherwise, it's all just lip service to placate the staff. I would be curious to who said this exactly for some perspective.

I have to disagree with you on the problems with '95 and '01 Keith. The fall in 1995 stems from many "behind the curtain/under the hood" issues over the previous few years, leading into a '94 season that other than the competitive placement, was honestly a disaster. That lead to a rather large staff turnover, which combined with a product which finally appeared on the field extremely late in the season, lead to a drop out of finals. Hardly an issue with trying to be something they are not.

I have to say I was most excited about 2001's show over the winter, but my take on it was that the design staff tried to program a show out of their comfort zone and not that the show itself was out of any image BK had for itself (only my opinion, take it for what it is worth). As for bringing something new and refreshing, it would be selling other corps short to say Blue Knights are alone in this.

Here is where I am going to get some flack I am sure. I do feel like the corps projects an "us versus the world" mentality in some form or another. The seeds were planted way back when in 1990 when we learned the words to "I Go On" with a few weeks to go in the season (what? you thought we just spontaneously just started singing that at semis?). As I stated back in the last major BK thread which might have been lost in the debate about the marching technique, most of the struggles the corps has gone through I can attribute to internal issues instead of "the historical inner wars waged being[sic] BK and DCI".

To the OP, I have to reflect on the recent posting on the Blue Stars thread about getting new shakos. A few alumni (loyal no doubt at all) reacted harshly to the change and feel the corps admin were throwing out a link to the Blue Stars that was simple unknowable to them. In the Madison thread there are countless alums who armchair quarterback the Scouts on every conceivable aspect to the corps as well as engage in what amounts to a pissing match over which administration was better for the corps. Both of those instances completely ignore their respective corps CURRENT state. At some point you really have to cut the cord and decide to just sit back and enjoy the corps for what it is, or not. Otherwise the only option is to take your concerns straight to Mark or Robbie, seeing that even as the dialogue here maybe open and civil, it ultimitely has no real impact on the corps (even though most on here feel empowered with an opinion). Do I personaly like the shows Blue Knights have been putting out? Not really at all, and I do agree with the OP for the most part, but that is where the designers are taking the corps like it or not, so honestly all I can say is just kind of deal with it.

Here is really what it comes down to. Some in the audience do like where the corps is at, and as I can figure out for myself it might just be a 50/50 split on feelings about BK. You may have a more vested interest in what the corps performs than the fan in the stands, but this is really a debate for those in charge of BK. Word of caution though. What if the BK team DID decide to go in a different direction? Would those self same fans throw the proverbial tomatoes? Blue Devils, Bluecoats, and others have rewritten themselves recently to be able to branch out from what they had been doing previously. I hardly think it is selling out to purely gain points, and I don't think they lost any of what it was to be their respective identities. Sorry for taking up all of your time everybody....

Very well thought out, indeed.

Thanks all for having an intelligent, respectful discussion about these issues. I am, frankly, surprised by the number of people (at least those who come to DCP) who expressed support and interest in BK through this post. BK has some wonderful fans to whom they can do no wrong. Even if I disagree with some of your opinions, it`s very encouraging. Thanks.

[Tony L.]

I actually really enjoyed their show last night in West Chester. And I was surprised to find out that my friend who went with me had BK second only to Crown in his rankings on shear entertainment! I think that they should just do what they do and if it bores some, then fine. You can't please all of the people all of the time. And quite frankly, if they weren't doing their own thing, then I fear that a DCI show would turn into simple variations on the same theme in terms of how the corps do what they do. That would be boring!

[jblamb1401]

BK-Where is the excitement? Where is the pop? Where is the evidence that BK deserves to be among the top tier corps?

Please, BK alumni and staff alike, spare me the lectures on corps identity and paying a price for taking a "different approach" to drum corps. Our message is lost in translation. It isn’t getting through to the people who matter most- OUR FANS.

And with that, the prosecution rests.

I attempted to make these same points a month ago after watching BK. I got the major flame for my opinions.

IMO their last 5 or so shows have been boring. Literally capable of putting me asleep. They do nothing for me.

Edited August 1, 2008 by jblamb1401

[noblegaijin]

I attempted to make these same points a month ago after watching BK. I got the major flame for my opinions.

IMO their last 5 or so shows have been boring. Literally capable of putting me asleep. They do nothing for me.

I didn`t think 2007 was sooo bad. It had moments of brilliance. But I can say this about most BK shows throughout the years. That`s the frustrating part.

[noblegaijin]

I actually really enjoyed their show last night in West Chester. And I was surprised to find out that my friend who went with me had BK second only to Crown in his rankings on shear entertainment! I think that they should just do what they do and if it bores some, then fine. You can't please all of the people all of the time. And quite frankly, if they weren't doing their own thing, then I fear that a DCI show would turn into simple variations on the same theme in terms of how the corps do what they do. That would be boring!

My argument has little to do with being a cookie cutter group. I think it is possible to find a marriage of style and appeal. I think BK has well established its own style....the pop step, trittico, and others. Now it is time to move on to the next stage of evolution--creating something entertaining.

[Nation of Bass]

BK should do a show like 91 or 93 Star of Indiana. Those shows were "dark" and "artistic" yet they got first and second place those years. Merge style with entertainment. Either way, go BK!