chris87 Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 Do you "drink a few beers of the bus" when you're 18, the bus ride is University sponsored, and the drinking age is 21? Hell no, I totally hear ya. Does that stuff happen? Yes, but that wasn't at all what I was talking about. A drum corps bus with age-outs is hardly a college marching band bus with 18-year-olds. For those of you who think you can only have camaraderie by drinking alcohol while underage, I'm sorry your lives are so limited. There are a bunch of us who have had fantastic lives, great friends and great experiences without having to drink to prove anything, to anybody.... You can have self confidence, a feeling of self-worth and be a champion; alcohol has nothing to do with it. Rock on man, much respect. I didn't mean to promote underage drinking, just wanted to provide another perspective from a group of guys who were mostly of age. Alcohol is not necessary for camaraderie, agreed. But it usually doesn't hurt when enjoyed responsibly either. As for OMH's post, I PM'ed him so hopefully we can settle that one privately. Thanks! -Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taters Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 For those of you who think you can only have camaraderie by drinking alcohol while underage, I'm sorry your lives are so limited. There are a bunch of us who have had fantastic lives, great friends and great experiences without having to drink to prove anything, to anybody.For those on this board who are young and feel like it sounds great to drink, that's called "be like me so I can feel validated" kind of wishful thinking. It's the "herd" mentality, so don't fall for it. You can have self confidence, a feeling of self-worth and be a champion; alcohol has nothing to do with it. Thanks Dad I am glad we had this talk ;-)...Seriously though I agree under age drinking should not be allowed and Lord knows I was a poster child for what can go wrong when you drink irresponsibly. That being said I think the problem is not age appropriate drinking, but the whole taboo nature we give alcohol in this country. Outside of this country the attitudes towards alcohol are more Laissez faire and I think this is what makes the difference when one comes of age to drink. In this country we tend to go overboard with the consumption whereas in countries where they have been doing it all their lives alcohol tends to be more contollred in its consumption in social situations. IMHO Taters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drum Korps Fan Man Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 Thanks Dad I am glad we had this talk ;-)...Seriously though I agree under age drinking should not be allowed and Lord knows I was a poster child for what can go wrong when you drink irresponsibly. That being said I think the problem is not age appropriate drinking, but the whole taboo nature we give alcohol in this country. Outside of this country the attitudes towards alcohol are more Laissez faire and I think this is what makes the difference when one comes of age to drink. In this country we tend to go overboard with the consumption whereas in countries where they have been doing it all their lives alcohol tends to be more contollred in its consumption in social situations. IMHOTaters ring ring! I concur. One of the reasons drunk driving is not an issue in other countries is because alcohol is a part of their life from childhood; they are raised knowing and believing that alcohol is something to have a drink of with dinner, or dessert, and that is it. They don't (generally) drink in order to get drunk. Does that happen? yes, but not as often as here. If we get kids used to alcohol earlier, they will go through the 'experiment with getting bombed' phase earlier, and not cause problems when they have the ability to do real damage. Furthermore, if we handle the alcohol issue correctly from birth, they won't ever go through that phase. Any news update on the band? Do we know how long this suspension will last? I have heard and read many things, so I'm just looking for the truth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rifuarian Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 The bottom line is if your traveling with a group, be it band, drum corps, military, or whatever, and decide to do something fragrantly stupid it's going to reflect not on you but your group and your activity. That may not be fair, it might not be what you intended to happen when you urinated on that church or danced in that fountain with nothing on but your corps jacket, but it's the way the world works. I know from personal experience. Not that you can't enjoy yourself every once in a while, but always keep in mind what you're supposed to be representing. And I agree that the drinking age should be lowered, but only principle. I always found it annoying that I was old enough to go to Afghanistan but not old enough to legally buy a beer, even my military ID was enough to get most places to overlook my age. But lowering the age won't make a bit of difference in our drinking culture. Anyone spent a lot of time in Britain or Russia? I've been to both places, and kids have access to alcohol from early ages and it does nothing to reduce alcoholism or binge-drinking. It's simply part of the culture. The reason why it's not a problem in places like Spain is because there are strong taboos against drunkeness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scerpella Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 ring ring! I concur. One of the reasons drunk driving is not an issue in other countries is because alcohol is a part of their life from childhood; they are raised knowing and believing that alcohol is something to have a drink of with dinner, or dessert, and that is it. They don't (generally) drink in order to get drunk. Does that happen? yes, but not as often as here. If we get kids used to alcohol earlier, they will go through the 'experiment with getting bombed' phase earlier, and not cause problems when they have the ability to do real damage. Furthermore, if we handle the alcohol issue correctly from birth, they won't ever go through that phase. Any news update on the band? Do we know how long this suspension will last? I have heard and read many things, so I'm just looking for the truth. Tonights Milwaukee Journal Sentinel Article Letter to parents of UW band members lists hazing accusations By ERICA PEREZ eperez@journalsentinel.com Posted: Oct. 8, 2008 The parents of 300 students in the University of Wisconsin Marching Band received a letter this week from the dean of students with more details on the hazing accusations the school is investigating — including a charge that students were sexually fondled against their will. The Friday letter from Dean of Students Lori Berquam tells parents "there's a concern that students may have been placed in unsafe situations or experienced humiliation in a hazing-like atmosphere." The letter lists four specific accusations. Two are potentially serious: sexual fondling, or being forced or pressured to drink alcohol. The others are: "Being forced or pressured to have their hair cut in a way that is not flattering" or "being forced or pressured to eat something disgusting." "The rationale that we used to send (the letter) out is, first and foremost, is there any reason for us to be concerned about any of the students' safety? The answer to that was yes," Berquam said Wednesday. "And secondarily, was there potential for any academic impact? And we believed there was." The university announced Friday that the entire band was suspended because of "serious hazing allegations" involving alcohol consumption and inappropriate sexual behavior. For the first time in at least 40 years, the band did not play at a home game Saturday - the Big Ten matchup between the Badgers and the Ohio State Buckeyes. Berquam said the listed behaviors reportedly occurred recently and did not refer to 2006, when the university put the band on probation for seminude dancing, sexualized banter and hazing that occurred during a trip to the University of Michigan. Berquam would not provide any more details on the accusations, such as when the alleged sexual fondling occurred, what disgusting item students were forced to eat or whether any of the accusations stemmed from the band's recent trip to Michigan. The letter asks parents to talk to their children about their experiences in the band and help encourage "your son or daughter to be truthful and fully cooperative with our investigation." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 (respectful snip) Alcohol is not necessary for camaraderie, agreed. But it usually doesn't hurt when enjoyed responsibly either. -Chris That IS the point, and you made it better than I did. I agree with you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khoutler Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 For those of you who think you can only have camaraderie by drinking alcohol while underage, I'm sorry your lives are so limited. There are a bunch of us who have had fantastic lives, great friends and great experiences without having to drink to prove anything, to anybody. WVU80, I would respectfully request that you not make assumptions about the quality and limitations of others lives based on scanty information. When I marched the drinking age was 18 (until 1986) so there was no real issue of underage drinking. Secondly a little background, I grew up in Germany where beer is food “flüssig Brot”, there is no vice or stigma attached to its consumption and in fact as children we were routinely given “kinder bier”, a very low alcohol beverage that in my opinion is FAR healthier than any soda that roly-poly American kids consume. By the time I was a teenager I understood the effects and responsibilities of alcohol use and most importantly did not regard its consumption as taboo…I could enjoy it anytime I wanted so there was no burning desire to drink myself into a comatose state at every opportunity. I, for one, do not drink to prove anything to anyone and furthermore, I don’t believe that anybody has made the case that alcohol is the sole mechanism for creating camaraderie, simply that it is not the root of all evil and for better or worse continues to be an integral part of our western culture. Tschüss, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
08Hawkeye Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 Do you "drink a few beers of the bus" when you're 18, the bus ride is University sponsored, and the drinking age is 21? No, we drank Captain. Easier to conceal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 WVU80,I would respectfully request that you not make assumptions about the quality and limitations of others lives based on scanty information. When I marched the drinking age was 18 (until 1986) so there was no real issue of underage drinking. Secondly a little background, I grew up in Germany where beer is food “flüssig Brot”, there is no vice or stigma attached to its consumption and in fact as children we were routinely given “kinder bier”, a very low alcohol beverage that in my opinion is FAR healthier than any soda that roly-poly American kids consume. By the time I was a teenager I understood the effects and responsibilities of alcohol use and most importantly did not regard its consumption as taboo…I could enjoy it anytime I wanted so there was no burning desire to drink myself into a comatose state at every opportunity. I, for one, do not drink to prove anything to anyone and furthermore, I don’t believe that anybody has made the case that alcohol is the sole mechanism for creating camaraderie, simply that it is not the root of all evil and for better or worse continues to be an integral part of our western culture. Tschüss, While I totally agree with your more global POV on alcohol, the situation is that all activities have to operate as things ARE, not how we might LIKE them to be. Parents who are entrusting their children to a surrogate "family" for the summer like a drum corps have every right to expect that the organization will operate within the guidelines and practices they are used to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khoutler Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 While I totally agree with your more global POV on alcohol, the situation is that all activities have to operate as things ARE, not how we might LIKE them to be. Parents who are entrusting their children to a surrogate "family" for the summer like a drum corps have every right to expect that the organization will operate within the guidelines and practices they are used to. Mike, Agreed, but please see the quote that I was responding to for the proper context which framed my post. Breaking the law...bad. My life "limited" and my sense of self worth directly related to drinking...hardly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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