Current SCV era

[Galen]

And it may be a bit presumptuous of me to make such a comment as I couldn't possibly do a better job personally

Maybe not- but you can still stomp them.

[Rusty]

Key is a talented guy. Very talented. Some may argue that his drum corps arrangements may not be the best thing in the world (I think they are fine), but none of that really matters yet becuase they have not been able to PERFORM the last few years.

You can blame Key Poulan or Pete Weber all you want, but the instructional team has either A) not trained the corps well enough for them to compete with the corps in their bracket or B) the instructional team has not been kept in place long enough to get them at the level to compete for the top. Lets face it, the corps that have been in front of them the last few years (BD, Cadets, Cavies, Crown, & Phantom) have been flat out executing their shows better than them. It really hasn't been close these last few years.... those other corps have been out-marching, out-playing, and spinning SCV lately and THAT is why they are not competing for championships like they used to.

Excellent points. To further bolster your assertion: all the corps you named who have won out over SCV have all had pretty much the same core staffs in place for years.

For better or worse, I think Bill Cook was right when he said that staffs win championships.

[BOSMarcher]

No. 2003 was Key's first year.

I guess if it says it on his site, it must be right, but I thought 2002 was his first year. 2003 was Adam Sage's first year as well.

Edited June 4, 2009 by BOSMarcher

[BOSMarcher]

That's been their problem ever since 2000 imo.

The last few years, their shows have come off to me as being lofty and striving for... something, I'm not sure what- and never quite reaching it. I'm hoping this year's show is more like '04 with solid story-telling rather than vague intangibles.

Take a look at 98-99... it not like those were clean either... they were just clean enough.

[cmathis]

I guess if it says it on his site, it must be right, but I thought 2002 was his first year. 2003 was Adam Sage's first year as well.

No. Dean Westman arranged 2002.

[FTNK]

For better or worse, I think Bill Cook was right when he said that staffs win championships.

George Hopkins said the exact same thing when asked how he transformed Garfield into a dominant power in the early 80s.

[jjeffeory]

I guess I wasn't very precise in my earlier post. Sure, Key is not my cup of tea-- but I don't think that he's to blame for SCV's placement in recent years. To echo what's been said, SCV just lacks the musical and marching chops to compete against the other top corps. Brass, Perc, marching, and gen effect have all been okay but wholly unimpressive (though, their guard is always a pleasure to watch).

I know there were a couple videos floating around in The Internets, but were taken down from you-know-where before I was able to watch them. To those that have seen it, any thoughts? Did things look good or bleak?

And on a more general question, in the near-future, do you think SCV will be going the way of Phantom Regiment-- who got out of a funk to rise to the top again-- or, um, the Madison Scouts?

It was really hard to judge the video given the restrictions put on them at their practice site, but what I saw seem promising. I heard good, mature tones coming out of the hornline. There were some trumpets with some blend and timing issues. I remember hearing Garfield play through this same music early season '87. It didn't sound any better than SCV. I think they'll be just fine. The show didn't seem too terribly easy or anything, but there wasn't much to go on with the removed clips from that place...

[Galen]

Take a look at 98-99... it not like those were clean either... they were just clean enough.

I'm pretty familiar with those shows. 98-2000 fall into the category of "mostly clean with just a little bit of fuzz here and there". From about 2005 onward is where it starts getting pretty noticeable.

But what hasn't been mentioned yet, and imo is definitely worth pointing out, is this- ever since the debacle of 2005, it really feels like they've stopped trying to connect with the fans as much as far as their music and overall show design goes. Phantom showed how that connection can be the decisive edge that separates 1st from 2nd, or 6th from 7th in this case. Bluecoats' show was better designed from the audience-connection standpoint. Go back to the scores and you'll see that Bluecoats were even with, or ahead, of Vanguard in the crucial GE Music caption all throughout finals week. That's what ultimately pushed them over the top on finals night, imo.

Well, that and their bad-### drumline.

[Bruckner8]

Excellent points. To further bolster your assertion: all the corps you named who have won out over SCV have all had pretty much the same core staffs in place for years.

For better or worse, I think Bill Cook was right when he said that staffs win championships.

Sure, if the membership talent is equal.

If Bill is putting every non-marching member into the "staff" category, then DUH! A staff member is hired to design the drill. A staff member is hired to write the brass book. A staff member is hired to drive a bus. A staff member is hired to coordinate the show. A staff member is hired to setup the electronics. A staff member is....you get the picture. Other than the membership, THE ENTIRE ORG IS STAFF!

Just like a successful company, the key is in the management, top-down, building trust at each level, setting realistic goals and holding everyone accountable. Non-competitive drum corps fail miserably at one or all of those things, even when the talent of the membership is on par with their direct competitors. Either they have incompetent leadership at high or mid levels, no trust from level to level, and/or unwilling to hold people accountable.

This is news?

SCV is struggling with this right now. You can't discount their membership talent. Therefore, something must be amiss at a higher level. They seem to have competent people "up front [closer to membership]," but I'm not sure about the BOD. (I don't know any of them...are any of them "meddlers" who have no trust?) They have a revolving door of brass staff....HORRIBLE MANAGEMENT SOMEWHERE, either in staff selection, lack of trust (so staffers quit) or some combination. I find it unfathomable that SCV can't find--or keep--competent brass staff! My instinct leads me back to the "meddling" aspect. There must be a meddler somewhere, either forcing certain picks of brass staff (unqualified), or causing qualified people to say "screw this."

I really have no clue, nor do I know any of the brass staff over the last 10 years, other than Nick Williams; I only know his name and face because of the 40th anniversary video.

DISCLAIMER: My instincts are based on my experience in BUSINESS, and nothing to do with any inside info on SCV. I recognize two names on the entire Admin/Staff/BOD set of pages (http://www.scvanguard.org/about/organization/?tab=contact#), but I haven't talked to those people in YEARS, and never about SCV! In fact, I didn't even know one of those people was working for SCV until just now! Go Steve! (The future of brass looks good after all!)

[hsreed]

When was the last time Vanguard won horns? Last year. The SCV Cadets won horns playing music written by a very talented composer and former member, James Peterson.

I'm also a life time SCV fan. There's no question who I root for.

Music is killing SCV. They have the aura of the past, the aussie and colors, but lack a dominant hornline. Poulan's arrangements are also very programmed. You can review his arrangemens and find various impact moments happen around the same time of every show. The music is dictated by show structure. It's hard to get players to be interested in that system because it just isn't that great. It also has to do with "who is the instructor this year" concern.

As for the front office, clearly there have been issues. They've had three A corps directors in the last five years. Someone else figured out their other staff changes.

SCV had Gino - GINO, and he's somewhere else now. I sure wish that could have worked out. He made 04 special and I think the arrangement prevented SCV from winning. Proof staffs do win championships and make huge difference.