Jeff Ream Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 good post. yes ring chasers do exist. they do in DCA. they did before DCI and DCA as well. but there aren't nearly as many as we think. There are folks who want to be a Cadet, a Blue Devil, PR, SCV you name it...just because of that corps. regardless if they win or not. they just love that corps. will it help them to go somewhere else, get training and a good idea what tour is like then go for their dream corps later? most often yes. but that doesnt mean they are leaving solely for the ring. you also have people loyal to certain staff members. If their staff goes elsewhere and they love that staff, they'll follow. it happens in DCI and DCA, I know, I've been on both sides of that issue. but they didn't leave for a ring. They left because they love that staff. but yes, there are always some...not a lot, but some....folks who will leave just to get that elusive ring. funny thing is...I bet the percentage of them that actually get that ring may be lower than you think Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fifer Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 The to[ic is why lower placing corps can't win. How am I off topic by arguing that they stay stagnant due in part to ring chasing? ... Your picture speaks volumes as to why lower placing corps can't move up like they used to. You earned it, and I take nothing away form that, but to pick that as your profile picture speaks volumes.... my point stands. And is your point that anyone who earns a ring should not be proud of it? If Pioneer somehow had the talent to have won in 2005, would it have "spoken volumes" to you if some kid in that corps had a profile picture showing her/his medal? How will the elimination of the pride of winning improve the chances of lower place corps getting a ring? Now if you were speaking of someone who went from a few years in the Manadrins to a few years at Blue Knights to a year or two at BD, I could see your point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euponitone Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 The to[ic is why lower placing corps can't win. How am I off topic by arguing that they stay stagnant due in part to ring chasing? You keep bringing up a comment I made about ring chasing. Yes you said it does exist, just a little bit. That has everything to do with the topic. Corps stay stagnant due to people who have NO loyalty to their corps. They want insant gratification. Your picture speaks volumes as to why lower placing corps can't move up like they used to. You earned it, and I take nothing away form that, but to pick that as your profile picture speaks volumes. You made my day too, hope your trip home is a safe and good one. I hold no grudges in arguments, but my point stands. Again, i'm not actually sure you read what I wrote. I picked that picture for my profile because it's funny, or at least I thought it was. It's also a picture from 2006, my worst placing year. I guess it speaks volumes that my profile pic is from our worst competitive year, I must value coming in 5th place above all else, eh? Also, please point out where I said you were off topic....oh wait, that was in a different thread...and you seem to be getting confused Oh, and my actual picture, or handle, or whatever you call the one that appears besides my name when I post, is of me sitting in an evil chair getting pushed into metro train tracks. Care to look into the crystal ball and tell me what that one means? Or maybe I just picked an amusing picture .... naahhh...couldnt be it. Corps stay stagnant for a TON of reasons. ONE of those reasons MIGHT be because of ring chasers. Jeff just outlined what some of those reasons might be, but here's another (and again, I am repeating myself). Lower placing corps frequently accept 'cuts' from upper level corps. Whenever someone comes to dcp asking what they should do after getting cut from their dream corps we all scream "MARCCHH"..."for the love of god just MARCH somewhere...you will love it, and you can always go back to your dream corps next year". So......I wonder (and i really am open to responses on this), how many corps actually ADVERTISE themselves as potentional stepping stones for someone to get into their dream corps. People say it on here all the time....if you arent ready to audition for the cavaliers, then instead of sitting on you butt for the summer, go march somewhere, get experience, and try it next year if you want. Do I think that's wrong??...of course not. What would be really wrong is those kids not marching at all. How many corps would kill to have the hundreds or thousands of cuts from crown, cavies, bd, wherever.....even knowing that some of them will leave for 'greener' pastures after the season? FACT - some of those kids will find a home in the first corps, and stay. FACT - others will move on, and attempt to achieve their original goals. Neither is right or wrong, and neither experience is worth more than the other...and certainly noone can answer that question for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euponitone Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 but yes, there are always some...not a lot, but some....folks who will leave just to get that elusive ring. funny thing is...I bet the percentage of them that actually get that ring may be lower than you think <= knows someone who went from cadets in 04, to bd in 05 See, i can admit they exist Although, I think he just liked BD's attitude and rehearsal style better. He also displayed zero regrets over missing 'the ring' in 05, and only talked about the amazing time he had in europe with dev's. Ok, maybe that was a bad example... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fifer Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 Anyway, to hopefully move this conversation on, let's just say that we all agree that ring chasers are one, but only one, of a number of things that add to the difficulty of lower placing corps moving up. What I feel is the biggest single factor is money. And the single thing that money brings to a corps is superior staff, including both design and technical staff. If you don't have the staff who can design/tweak a winning show and teach/clean the execution, you ain't going to move up. And the first thing you need to attract and retain a staff of that level is money. So in the chicken and egg discussion of ring chasers, the money still has to come first. Of course, once you have attained the higher levels it is easier to keep the money coming in. But until you have that initial influx of cash to build your staff, the more talented kids won't join your corps and its ability to move up will be significantly impaired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
84skyrydr Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 And is your point that anyone who earns a ring should not be proud of it? If Pioneer somehow had the talent to have won in 2005, would it have "spoken volumes" to you if some kid in that corps had a profile picture showing her/his medal? How will the elimination of the pride of winning improve the chances of lower place corps getting a ring?Now if you were speaking of someone who went from a few years in the Manadrins to a few years at Blue Knights to a year or two at BD, I could see your point. Anyone who earns the ring should be proud of it. Pride is a great thing. I am just saying that ringchasers exist and that is ONE of many reasons lower corps can't move up. Euphy brings up the ringchaser comment in every thread and speaks of not caring about position but posts a pic of himself full of medals ( that don't mean anything, in fact I am sure he probably doesn't even have them anymore )It would be a great day and I would PERSONALLY PAY for a Blue Devil, Cadet, Cavalier or Crown member to march one year in a non top twelve corps. It won't happen, WHY????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euponitone Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 Anyone who earns the ring should be proud of it. Pride is a great thing. I am just saying that ringchasers exist and that is ONE of many reasons lower corps can't move up. Euphy brings up the ringchaser comment in every thread and speaks of not caring about position but posts a pic of himself full of medals ( that don't mean anything, in fact I am sure he probably doesn't even have them anymore )It would be a great day and I would PERSONALLY PAY for a Blue Devil, Cadet, Cavalier or Crown member to march one year in a non top twelve corps. It won't happen, WHY????? You know what....my girlfriend has had the medals for about a year. She was supposed to do something with em....hasnt happened yet. Oh well, no big deal. Oh, and apparently "one other thread" i brought it up in now equals "every other thread". You do a great job of generalizing some areas, and ignoring others....both in your comments, and in your larger views about the subject. When did I say I didnt care about position?...nope, you just made that up. You also ignored every comment I personally made about that photo. That photo was taken on my last night in dci. We, as a corps, were coming off of our lowest placement in 15 years, a dissapointing year of performance and placement all around, had just lost to the bluecoats at finals for the first time ever...even worse, after beating them at quarters and semis. Yet....I am HAPPY. I am smiling, I am chewing on my mini medal to see if there's chocolate inside, and I am remembering a great year of memories, and a great career of drum corps. That's pretty much the general feeling everyone in the corps had, at least from what I remember of the whirlwind of that night. Look, we can at least find common ground on the fact that ring chasers exist, but thats about where it ends. You seem conviced that you can decide someone is a ring chaser just by looking at a picture, or by looking at what corps they have in their signature, and that's where you're flat out wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 Anyone who earns the ring should be proud of it. Pride is a great thing. I am just saying that ringchasers exist and that is ONE of many reasons lower corps can't move up. Euphy brings up the ringchaser comment in every thread and speaks of not caring about position but posts a pic of himself full of medals ( that don't mean anything, in fact I am sure he probably doesn't even have them anymore )It would be a great day and I would PERSONALLY PAY for a Blue Devil, Cadet, Cavalier or Crown member to march one year in a non top twelve corps. It won't happen, WHY????? let me ask you this...why would they want to? Once you've been part of a top level group, would it be fun to go to a group that isn't close to that level? you get used to things being done with a certain purpose, for certain reasons. I've been in 1st place corps and I've been in last place corps, and I'm ok with that, but if you've been at the top, and you go somewhere that isn't.....it would drive most people nuts unless they were on staff and had the ability to help change that culture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
84skyrydr Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 let me ask you this...why would they want to?Once you've been part of a top level group, would it be fun to go to a group that isn't close to that level? you get used to things being done with a certain purpose, for certain reasons. I've been in 1st place corps and I've been in last place corps, and I'm ok with that, but if you've been at the top, and you go somewhere that isn't.....it would drive most people nuts unless they were on staff and had the ability to help change that culture. Why wouldn't they do that? It would be FREE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euponitone Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 Why wouldn't they do that? It would be FREE. Lol....i would consider it...especially if I was poor, and /or had a bunch of years left to march. Then again, many people would rather take the summer off and MAKE money, rather then just breaking even (although that usually doesnt wind up working out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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