Why Academy, Colts, etc can't win next year

[Bruckner8]

Oh, Absolutely 100% true. But for those of us that lack your particular brand of insight, could you please tell us who got their championship because of judging bias, or who maybe who made finals based only on historical success and nothing else (and no, troopers dont count, having been out of finals for decades, and not even on the field a few years back). I'd really love to discuss this with you, and point out some literal examples of corps that should have won, but placed out of the top 5 or 6 due to slotting.

I would take on that challenge if it were limited to captions.

But to extend that to an overall outcome, when 9 judges are involved...not very likely, no matter how much I enjoy conspiracy theories. The Competitive Inertia Theory (which has continued to hold up, even with Crown's ascension) DOES take into account "tie goes to the corps that's done it before." I'd never claim that corps who finished 6th should've won! Fact is, only 2-3 shows per year are worthy of winning anything anyway, and (lucky for the judges) it's pretty clear which shows those are.

One thing is alarming though: BD's performance excellence recently is being misconstrued as "good show design." I haven't been a fan of their shows recently, and I don't think they're championship worthy. But the performance is so far-and-away from everyone else, that it's hard to ignore.

Crown, Cadets and SCV should've been in the hunt, based on show design quality, but their performances weren't close. OK Crown won brass, yay, they need a bone right now, as one of the DCI Darlings.

[BassShark]

Yes, I have read through the majority of the pages. And yes, it was my first post. Ive had the account for about 6 years now. I just choose to read. Finally decided to post I guess.

I am fully aware of the judging system. I do go to critique and talk with these folks. I am also in agreement to the fact that the activity is changing. For the good or the worse? I really couldn't tell you. I like the fact that we are utilizing technology...even when I don't like some of the uses we come up with. I appreciate growth and knowledge. But, I think most of us are in fair agreement that we would LIKE to see variety in placement. Not just falling a place or 2 or jumping a place or 2. But, to see some of the guys who have never won get a "real chance". I hopped all over the CC band wagon last year. I was really pulling for a new "top dog". I hate to compare and I hate to look back...But, not too long ago we did have these upsets and we did have surprise groups in the top 5. I have never understood why we HAVE to have the same top 10 corps battling it out. For those who say staff have nothing to do with it...I strongly disagree. Not that it's a bad thing...but we all know without staff "a" corps "a" wouldn't not be in their position. The best get the best and that is part of the game of Drum Corps.

Bottom line...We ALL know that 10 of the usual top 12 will pretty much be there ALWAYS. That's reality. But, to dream and to hope that it could be different...That's another matter. I purely dream that things WOULDN'T be the way they are. However, I know better.

[euponitone]

Yes, I have read through the majority of the pages. And yes, it was my first post. Ive had the account for about 6 years now. I just choose to read. Finally decided to post I guess.

I am fully aware of the judging system. I do go to critique and talk with these folks. I am also in agreement to the fact that the activity is changing. For the good or the worse? I really couldn't tell you. I like the fact that we are utilizing technology...even when I don't like some of the uses we come up with. I appreciate growth and knowledge. But, I think most of us are in fair agreement that we would LIKE to see variety in placement. Not just falling a place or 2 or jumping a place or 2. But, to see some of the guys who have never won get a "real chance". I hopped all over the CC band wagon last year. I was really pulling for a new "top dog". I hate to compare and I hate to look back...But, not too long ago we did have these upsets and we did have surprise groups in the top 5. I have never understood why we HAVE to have the same top 10 corps battling it out. For those who say staff have nothing to do with it...I strongly disagree. Not that it's a bad thing...but we all know without staff "a" corps "a" wouldn't not be in their position. The best get the best and that is part of the game of Drum Corps.

Bottom line...We ALL know that 10 of the usual top 12 will pretty much be there ALWAYS. That's reality. But, to dream and to hope that it could be different...That's another matter. I purely dream that things WOULDN'T be the way they are. However, I know better.

You are entitled to your dream, of course. But I dont want to see corps moving positions unless they deserve it, and I doubt you do either. Now, if you are complaining about the corps with the best staff getting the best kids and putting out the best shows, and then getting the most interest at auditions and then getting good staff and on and on and on....well, yeah....that happens. I dont really see why it SHOULDN'T happen, but I guess you can view it as a problem.

[Jeff Ream]

I would take on that challenge if it were limited to captions.

But to extend that to an overall outcome, when 9 judges are involved...not very likely, no matter how much I enjoy conspiracy theories. The Competitive Inertia Theory (which has continued to hold up, even with Crown's ascension) DOES take into account "tie goes to the corps that's done it before." I'd never claim that corps who finished 6th should've won! Fact is, only 2-3 shows per year are worthy of winning anything anyway, and (lucky for the judges) it's pretty clear which shows those are.

One thing is alarming though: BD's performance excellence recently is being misconstrued as "good show design." I haven't been a fan of their shows recently, and I don't think they're championship worthy. But the performance is so far-and-away from everyone else, that it's hard to ignore.

Crown, Cadets and SCV should've been in the hunt, based on show design quality, but their performances weren't close. OK Crown won brass, yay, they need a bone right now, as one of the DCI Darlings.

you do realize great demand is rewarded with great performance right>

if it isnt performed well, sorry i dont care how hard it is, you wont get credit for it.

anyone can throw out 15 pounds of #### in a 2 pound bag as far as the book number. but if you dont perform it, odds are it isnt understood, and as a result, you wont get the max credit in either box

[Barifonium]

Don't you hate when people answer thier own question, Well your going to hate me.

Why couldn't a 8-14 place corps win it all or even a 16 to ?? or a Open class corps make finals. First I know all about Magic making finals as a D2 corps but were they reallyt D2?

Only in Drum Corps is the top 3 or 4 heck sone years top 9 known 3/4 of the way into the season. One issue I have with the activity is that there can't be upsets. In football one team can beat another on any given day, same with golf, tennis, baseball, horseshoes and even war. (this is were someone points out Nascar) But not drum corps. If say the Colts came out and beat Blue Devils in August, what would people think. And I'm not talking about a down year by BD. I'm talking Colts 89 BD 87. Think of how it would be to have 5-7-9 corps with a chance to win the title going into finals.

I think the biggest problem is judging. Its supposed to be blank sheet judging buts its not. If corps A gets a 14.5 in drums then Corps B who had scored higher the last 2 shows has to get at least a 15. And it gets higher from there. Maybe thats why corps are scoring 99's at finals. I've read many times the outrage when scores change dramatically from show to show. But if the tick system is no longer in effect why are corps like Pioneer, Pacific Crest and others scoring so low. If judging is subjective are they being compared to what others are doing or what they are trying to do?

Drum Corps is getting like Boxing, There are favorites or those that are expected to win or place at a certain level and thats the way its going to be.

I say we have Pioneer and the Blue Devils switch members but no one knows it! Ultimate test!!

lol I'm kidding but you see my point. Haven't read the entire thread but I'm going to in case anyone replies to this before I'm done.

[Bob984]

Don't you hate when people answer thier own question, Well your going to hate me.

Why couldn't a 8-14 place corps win it all or even a 16 to ?? or a Open class corps make finals. First I know all about Magic making finals as a D2 corps but were they reallyt D2?

Only in Drum Corps is the top 3 or 4 heck sone years top 9 known 3/4 of the way into the season. One issue I have with the activity is that there can't be upsets. In football one team can beat another on any given day, same with golf, tennis, baseball, horseshoes and even war. (this is were someone points out Nascar) But not drum corps. If say the Colts came out and beat Blue Devils in August, what would people think. And I'm not talking about a down year by BD. I'm talking Colts 89 BD 87. Think of how it would be to have 5-7-9 corps with a chance to win the title going into finals.

I think the biggest problem is judging. Its supposed to be blank sheet judging buts its not. If corps A gets a 14.5 in drums then Corps B who had scored higher the last 2 shows has to get at least a 15. And it gets higher from there. Maybe thats why corps are scoring 99's at finals. I've read many times the outrage when scores change dramatically from show to show. But if the tick system is no longer in effect why are corps like Pioneer, Pacific Crest and others scoring so low. If judging is subjective are they being compared to what others are doing or what they are trying to do?

Drum Corps is getting like Boxing, There are favorites or those that are expected to win or place at a certain level and thats the way its going to be.

[Blackstar]

I say we have Pioneer and the Blue Devils switch members but no one knows it! Ultimate test!!

lol I'm kidding but you see my point. Haven't read the entire thread but I'm going to in case anyone replies to this before I'm done.

WOW I was just thinking the same thing. Take Academy, What would happen if they really did switch uniforms and didn't tell anyone. How high would thier score be from the previous shows???I bet MUCH higher

[Lance]

Please explain whent the Colts should ever have scored high enough to be in a conversation for a championship....or even for placement as high as 4th. That's the only way you could say that some sort of conspiracy is going on with judges to keep them from winning.

[euponitone]

WOW I was just thinking the same thing. Take Academy, What would happen if they really did switch uniforms and didn't tell anyone. How high would thier score be from the previous shows???I bet MUCH higher

Or maybe lower, or maybe the same. Or maybe this post is a not so subtle "I'm still mad Academy didnt make finals" post.

[Blake13]

No one thought Anaheim could WIN the first DCI Championship after coming in 3rd in prelims by 3.2

No one thought SCV could come back to WIN in 1981 to win after finishing 7th in 1980.

No one thought Phantom could WIN in 1996 after coming in 5th in 1995

No one thought Phantom could WIN in 1996 after coming in 4th in quarter finals... down 3.7

No one thought Madison could WIN in 1988 after finishing 7th and 6th the two previous years.

No one thought MADISON would DROP to 7th in 1989 after WINNING in 1988

No one thought Phantom would DROP to 9th after WINNING in 2008.

never say never........

But these are all corps that were in Finals before. And the last two are irrelevant, anyone can drop. BUT not everyone can jump from like 20th to top 12 in a year. And that was all pre-2000 when it can happen with a comeback. It's a new game now.