DCI Direct, part dos

[Jeff Ream]

True dat, however as much as WE may love the activity, I seriously doubt you will find 30,000 fannies to fill the seats. Unless perhaps they GIVE the tickets away....

ok...so how did Cali and Denver draw more fans than most places? not quite 30k, and yes they were starved for finals....this is where I think locking yourself into one venue forever hurts.

if you move it around, you give more people a chance to attend. you have east people who wont go to Cali. you have Cali folks who'll never go East.

[audiodb]

Granted, these are good things that Indy is doing outside of the performances themselves; but, when you look at what happened to DCI the last time they decided on a long term hosting city (Orlando), the numbers were progressively worse each year, and in an area that had more outside interests that Indianapolis does. . . .and that was with no sound quality issues.

. . .what happens if that sound quality isn't dramatically improved, and people start staying away in 2011, 2012, etc, giving us attendance numbers in the 12,000-13,000 range like Orlando? Or lower?

That would be bad....especially since there are five shows in this venue that would suffer, not just Saturday night's finals.

However, to put a little historical perspective on things....let's remember that several dome-show regionals (Indy being one) have been able to put up repeated five-figure attendance numbers. This deal was inked a couple of weeks after the first Georgia Dome show pulled in 15,831 fans. In that context, we hope that cooler heads would have considered 12,000-13,000 as a worst-case scenario....but I doubt any of us would have imagined it going lower than that, barring great depressions.

Now, do the incentives make Indy at 12,000 attendance more profitable than the 2006 status quo?

[OrlandoContraAlum]

Firstly, thanks to Mr. Jacobs for the article, I found it an interesting read, and it does an excellent job of putting together in one place the host of challenges that are faced in putting on this type of event.

Having said that, I also am seeing more and more inferences to Indy as the "permanent" home of DCI, not just the offices, but the finals as well. I don't see this as a 10-year deal, I see it as a perpetual one. Comments such as looking at attendance from a summer-long rather than one-event viewpoint, while quite logical and good business, also provides an "out" if (and, IMO, when) attendance at Indy drops. By out, I mean something like "yes, we realize that finals attendance is down, but the overall attendance is up/steady, so it's ok".

This I feel cheapens the experience for the kids. Back in the day (yeah, I know, dinosaur time) I played for all manner and size of crowd, but I knew that, come that last weekend, there would be the largest, most rabid audience for my performance. After becoming a fan, I would often attend early season shows, but not always Finals, secure in the knowledge that I could always order the CDs/Videos/DVDs at the end of the year to immortalize the performances.

I think that, without trying to sound negative, you have the possibility that the World Championships may not even be the highest attended show of the year, which could be a pretty big letdown for the performers. Additionally, you may see that the audience shifts from true fans of the activity to the mom & pop group, akin to a BOA crowd. Not that there is anything wrong with it, but these fans tend to cheer more vociferously for "their" groups, and, at best, politely applaud for any competing units. So again, what should be the penultimate experience for the performer could be diluted a bit.

Finally, from a fan standpoint, I agree with most in that we have an activity that is based on the visual and the musical. To even consider compromise on half of the product is somewhat shocking, although I fully understand the points raised by Mr. Jacobs. At the end of the day, I certainly want the activity to continue, and if a permanent relationship with Indy is the only way for this to happen, then it is what it is. I only hope that, as fans, perhaps we will always have the option to purchase Allentown (or whatever is the last major OUTDOOR regional) as APDs or whatnot, should the Finals audio not be to our liking.

p.s. Although many may take exception to what Cowtown has to say, I have to say that a) he raises some very valid points, even if his delivery may ruffle some feathers and b) he is entitled to have opinions and to share them here, just as much as anyone else, unless he violates the TOS of the site.

[glory]

I'm interested to know what exactly corps will do if high schools become unavailable. I mean housing sites would be hard enough to find, and after that, with all the high school football fields off limits, where would corps practice? I think if anything would threaten to kill off this activity, it would be the housing factor.

Agreed. The increasing scarcity of viable high school accommodations is one of the most interesting and scary aspects of that article. DCI and the corps were out $250,000 for housing in Denver. A quarter million?

Makes me wonder what corps are paying through the course of the year for housing sites. I'm guessing that some corps now routinely budget that expense alongside everything else. That's money that could defray tuition costs.

And for the folks who said stay at colleges, that's no solution. Same issues there. Neither is any single facility no matter how many showers or food prep facilities it has. If we want to see Vanguard or Crusaders more than a days drive from Santa Clara or Boston, we're going to need high schools.

HH

[cavies98]

Jeff, I totally agree with you. The ticket prices are just too high for me to stomach. I live in northern Cincinnati, only 1.75 hours from Indy. I was REALLY excited when I found out that finals were going to be so close by for the next ten years.

Once they announced the ticket prices, however, my stomach just flipped. I'm simply not comfortable paying that much money to go to a DCI show - and I suspect many other fans feel the same way.

I have been a fan of DCI since 1990, and have attended at least one show a summer every year since then. I will say that my show attendance has dropped each year. It's getting too expensive for the average fan to afford.

I now give my $30 to DCI each year for the CDs, and that's all.

my fear is this...we're in a recession. $125 ticket prices to sit on the 20 is a crime even in a good economy. If the attendance does drop, will ticket prices go up again? Then you risk pricing more people out....and i bet they got after regionals first for price bumps....and eventually you risk pricing people out there too.

I totally support finding a host city from a financial POV. I'd prefer a rotating set of them. But...if attendance does drop, that also affects the eateries, hotels tourist spots ( well what Indy has for them)...at what point do the numbers drop far enough to irritate the host city?

I'm sure giving all that LA has going for it, DCI didnt create that much extra revenue. I'm sure it helps a place like Madison or Buffalo and especially Indy.

but at some point, if people get tired of Indy and stop going, they'll be hurting...the city and DCI. And if they jack up regional prices too much they'll be affected too.

the line DCI walks here is scary fine....and at this time, given many other decisions, I'm not sure they know how to stay on the right side of it.

this is where DCI needs real business people, not corps directors to be involved.

[BRASSO]

I agree, it's a safe decision that seems to benefit both the city of Indy and DCI in rather difficult financial times for cities trying to generate tourist dollars and DCI trying to lock in future venues.

Nobody has mentioned the possible effect on Corps show plannng in the off season, now that they know that the Finals will continue to be in domed stadiums where fans ( and judges ) ability to hear shows properly will be somewhat compromised. Since the VISUAL portion of shows will not be compromised as a result of a domed stadium, it will likely result that Corps with strong VISUAL shows and strong Guards will continue to have an edge, once Finals Week rolls around.

If you are a Corps that wants to place high in a domed stadium, you had better hope that your strong suit is your Visual and Guard above all other sections. Otherwise, come Indy, you'll be as dead in the water as the musical sound is in a domed stadium.

Edited February 1, 2010 by BRASSO

[perc2100]

I agree, it's a safe decision that seems to benefit both the city of Indy and DCI in rather difficult financial times for cities trying to generate tourist dollars and DCI trying to lock in future venues.

Nobody has mentioned the possible effect on Corps show plannng in the off season, now that they know that the Finals will continue to be in domed stadiums where fans ( and judges ) ability to hear shows properly will be somewhat compromised. Since the VISUAL portion of shows will not be compromised as a result of a domed stadium, it will likely result that Corps with strong VISUAL shows and strong Guards will continue to have an edge, once Finals Week rolls around.

If you are a Corps that wants to place high in a domed stadium, you had better hope that your strong suit is your Visual and Guard above all other sections. Otherwise, come Indy, you'll be as dead in the water as the musical sound is in a domed stadium.

In general, this has been the case the last decade: as corps have gotten a little parity in music talent, I think visual design and performance is what's helped propel corps to the next level. Obviously visual is only half the sheets, and corps have won DCI recently with a great musical program and sub-Championship visual design/performance (see Phantom Regiment 08). But in general it's been the visual aspect that has helped separate the good from the great, and that's been the case outside and in domes.

[Tez]

I agree, it's a safe decision that seems to benefit both the city of Indy and DCI in rather difficult financial times for cities trying to generate tourist dollars and DCI trying to lock in future venues.

Nobody has mentioned the possible effect on Corps show plannng in the off season, now that they know that the Finals will continue to be in domed stadiums where fans ( and judges ) ability to hear shows properly will be somewhat compromised. Since the VISUAL portion of shows will not be compromised as a result of a domed stadium, it will likely result that Corps with strong VISUAL shows and strong Guards will continue to have an edge, once Finals Week rolls around.

If you are a Corps that wants to place high in a domed stadium, you had better hope that your strong suit is your Visual and Guard above all other sections. Otherwise, come Indy, you'll be as dead in the water as the musical sound is in a domed stadium.

Which corps in 2009 scored higher at Indy (because of visual being better than music) compared to the rest of the season? I guess you could make the case that Phantom maybe scored lower, but that's about it. All year, Crown was very strong in music and weak in some aspects of visual, and was neck and neck with the Cadets. At Indy, they remained ahead of them. Also, it's not like this is the first time DCI has been indoors.... If you look at the dozens of indoors shows we have already had, I don't think anyone could make the case that a stronger visual program makes the overall score higher. In fact, the Cavaliers (strong visually, year in and year out) had not won in the RCA dome since 2002.

I really don't think this will affect scoring at all. The music judges will hear every group in the same acoustical environment, and I think they are experienced enough in their fields to know exactly what the stadium does to the sound. I think you could just as easily make the argument that stronger musical programs, with better harmonic and rhythmic clarity, might do better indoors.... but I don't think this will happen either.

[Jeff Ream]

Which corps in 2009 scored higher at Indy (because of visual being better than music) compared to the rest of the season? I guess you could make the case that Phantom maybe scored lower, but that's about it. All year, Crown was very strong in music and weak in some aspects of visual, and was neck and neck with the Cadets. At Indy, they remained ahead of them. Also, it's not like this is the first time DCI has been indoors.... If you look at the dozens of indoors shows we have already had, I don't think anyone could make the case that a stronger visual program makes the overall score higher. In fact, the Cavaliers (strong visually, year in and year out) had not won in the RCA dome since 2002.

I really don't think this will affect scoring at all. The music judges will hear every group in the same acoustical environment, and I think they are experienced enough in their fields to know exactly what the stadium does to the sound. I think you could just as easily make the argument that stronger musical programs, with better harmonic and rhythmic clarity, might do better indoors.... but I don't think this will happen either.

what I fear is everyone arranges for the dome, and for those 95% of the season shows scheduled for outside will sound like ####. weak, bland, and covered by electronics

[Lance]

what I fear is everyone arranges for the dome, and for those 95% of the season shows scheduled for outside will sound like ####. weak, bland, and covered by electronics

It's already kind of gotten like that to me.