INSIDETHEFORTY Posted January 30, 2010 Share Posted January 30, 2010 I think that the Cavies have evolved over the past 20 years or so, into one of the finest hornilines in DCI. They are technically superior to every corps from the Bluecoats down. They are not as loud as Blue Devils, Crown or Cadets, but they play with an expression that defies belief. The only problem I have with the Cavies ,horn wise, is the arrangements (off topic). Listening to the Cavies on a CD, without the benifit of seeing the visuals, leaves me somewhat perplexed, at times. "What are they playing?", I sometimes wonder. Are they going to play something I can "get into?" Aside from that small complaint, I have enjoyed the Cavies hornlines for a lot of years. If I were to make a request of them as a spectator, I would ask them to play more music that has melody. Chords, dissonance, and other abstract musical art (music major stuff) does not move me, a common man. I want to hear more stuff like the James Bond book they played, and won with! I was actually able to whistle and hum a lot of the show that year! I loved it! Playing it loud" + Musical intensity" + "Keeping it real" + "Making it accessable" = "Standing ovations" in my opinion. I'm just a fan with an opinion. "You may hate the message, but please, don't kill the messenger"! Thank you all for allowing me the oppoortunjity to voice my opinion in a civil forum. Yours in drum corps, Ron Gunn Now, back to the topic. Cavies volume? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INSIDETHEFORTY Posted January 30, 2010 Share Posted January 30, 2010 I think that the Cavies have evolved over the past 20 years or so, into one of the finest hornilines in DCI. They are technically superior to every corps from the Bluecoats down. They are not as loud as Blue Devils, Crown or Cadets, but they play with an expression that defies belief. The only problem I have with the Cavies ,horn wise, is the arrangements (off topic). Listening to the Cavies on a CD, without the benifit of seeing the visuals, leaves me somewhat perplexed, at times. "What are they playing?", I sometimes wonder. Are they going to play something I can "get into?" Aside from that small complaint, I have enjoyed the Cavies hornlines for a lot of years. If I were to make a request of them as a spectator, I would ask them to play more music that has melody. Chords, dissonance, and other abstract musical art (music major stuff) does not move me, a common man. I want to hear more stuff like the James Bond book they played, and won with! I was actually able to whistle and hum a lot of the show that year! I loved it! Playing it loud" + Musical intensity" + "Keeping it real" + "Making it accessable" = "Standing ovations" in my opinion. I'm just a fan with an opinion. "You may hate the message, but please, don't kill the messenger"! Thank you all for allowing me the oppoortunjity to voice my opinion in a civil forum. Yours in drum corps, Ron Gunn Now, back to the topic. Cavies volume? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigHoosierMack Posted January 30, 2010 Share Posted January 30, 2010 (edited) From my time spent watching and asking questions, it seems to me the approach from day one results in the "appearance" (mostly during 1st tour); Many (most) groups find that learning to play with appropriate support and intensity of the airstream are embraced first, and the control required to balance and blend that sound becomes the "task at hand" for second tour. Cavs just do it backwards...teach the ballance and blend, teach the listening responsibilities, then make it louder. It leaves fans wanting more during 1st tour, but by the end they usually stack up with the other big boys.. My gut tells me it is a result of their emphasis on listening....you cant all play FFFFFFF and really hear anything...so learn to listen and hear the sound before it is produced.....plus, they get to "f around the arc"...how cool is that? (sorry im on my phone and cant use smileys) Michael Edited January 30, 2010 by BigHoosierMack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luvs me sum mello! Posted January 30, 2010 Share Posted January 30, 2010 except you can be in tune and balanced and be loud as hell. see Crown the last few years, Phantom 08, and many, many others.I know this kills the whole "loud is out of tune argument", but then again, it hasn't always been a valid argument anyways I'll agree with Crown in 08, 09...but not Phantom. And my argument was never "loud is out of tune." It was that the great majority of drum corps play past their point of quality sound. The edgy and crass sound makes things sound harsh, which most people think is loud. But like I said, find that perfect balance. Play absolutely beautiful most of the show with ff and fff impacts. Then when you really need to sell it to the crowd with a ffff moment, it's cool to push just a little past. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenteaisgood Posted January 30, 2010 Share Posted January 30, 2010 agreed. if anything, they get too much credit for physical demand on the brass side of things Lol, thats a stupid thing to say, why should'nt they be given credit for difficulty in the visual department? They march circles around every corps in the activity while playing books that aren't the hardest but arent the easiest. Crown for example, sure they can play a hard book and play loud, but have you seen their visual package? There is a good reason other corps are louder than the Cavaliers, they all go for half the package and make a nice CD while the Cavaliers go for the whole package and make a nice DVD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Octavarium Posted January 30, 2010 Share Posted January 30, 2010 Lol, thats a stupid thing to say, why should'nt they be given credit for difficulty in the visual department? They march circles around every corps in the activity while playing books that aren't the hardest but arent the easiest. Crown for example, sure they can play a hard book and play loud, but have you seen their visual package? There is a good reason other corps are louder than the Cavaliers, they all go for half the package and make a nice CD while the Cavaliers go for the whole package and make a nice DVD. I more or less agree, except for the package statement. I think Crown had a full package this year, including visually for the most part... they just didn't execute as well as they needed to in order to win, or to be more visually appealing. The drill design has taken a significant step in the right direction, though. but I do agree... Cavies are just doing something different than what other corps are doing... the CD and DVD examples are spot on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bad Bari Posted January 30, 2010 Share Posted January 30, 2010 (edited) Well I have to believe that many here who have NEVER heard a sound like that of the 1979 Spirit of Atlanta have only books to help them comment on this subject... I was in the stands at DCI prelims in Birmingham Al when Spirit of Atlanta came on... Now bear in mind that many of my friends were Blue Devils at the time so I was jaded in terms of who I thought was the best and the loudest! Well I was very wrong... When Spirit came on I have to admit that although they were doing a good job of staying in tune, that it was not perfect by any stretch of the imagination but... THERE WAS NO WAY TO HEAR THE PERSON NEXT TO YOU YELLING IN YOUR EAR AT THE TOP OF THEIR LUNGS!!! If you have never felt this then you do not understand the impact that an AMAZINGLY LOUD hornline can produce... The stands were silenced by the hornline and after the cut off in Georgia it took the crowd a few seconds to realize what they had heard and then we were all on our feet screaming for more... Again if you have never experienced this I do not think you could possibly understand... I have seen most every major corps somewhere or another since that day, and have not felt that feeling since then... You could not feel or hear the crass or any issues but you were literally pushed back in your seat and there was NO WAY to concentrate on anything but what was happening to you! So IMO to say that a corps does not need to be loud is all fine and good but there is a major piece of the impact puzzle missing without volume. Oh and I also agree with the earlier comment that the attack, intonation and release are all very important parts of that puzzle too! Edited January 30, 2010 by Big Bad Bari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audiodb Posted January 30, 2010 Share Posted January 30, 2010 I'm kind of an oldie, but I have a question about this. What difference does it make if a corps is loud vs not loud? Does a not-as-loud corps mean they're not as appealing? I'm always curious to find out what the generations before/after me think of this. I marched in the late 80's/early 90's and played in some loud hornlines. but since I've been a spectator on the other side (almost 18 years now) I have found that whether it's "loud" or not, doesn't and shouldn't matter at all. I listen for clean lines, integration from horns to drums to visual and chords that are in tune and balanced. Whether it's loud or soft doesn't matter to me, personally. Your mileage may vary. And of course, all the different aspects of brass quality should matter....and they do all matter to me. The ones that most impress me the most, though, are when a brass line does something that I can't believe was even physically possible, based on my experience as a brass player. And I'm sorry, but "loud" is the #1 such achievement that can seize control of my vital signs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PepsiTwist Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 I'm going to add something. I read these forums daily though I don't post often and I am sure I cannot post youtube videos. I am a huge fan of Phantom Regiment and I have been since the 80's. I just watched a video online of regiment warmup finals lot 2009 playing canon & firebird and its about a one min vid. I was a trombone guy and don't know much about high brass or what it takes to play horn/trumpet but when the mellophones play their long note at the :24 mark of that video, I just have to turn it off because it sounds absolutely horrid to my ears. I assume this is what makes a lot of people get up and cheer. For me, I just want to plug my ears. yes it is LOUD!!! but there seems to be no quality and no control in the sound and for a finals day warmup, I can't think of a more opposite direction to go with your sound in this activity. I know it's just a youtube video and it would be better live but that's just what I hear a lot when I see live shows. I mean no disrespect to the regiment corps staff or members. They are still and always will be one of my favorites! But just as some have talked about how they are not in agreement with the approach to brass playing by cavaliers in recent past, I am not a fan of many of the louder and out of control sounds that I hear when it comes to finals. to each their own, of course. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheClutch Posted January 31, 2010 Author Share Posted January 31, 2010 This really isnt suppose to be a "is it better to do it the cavs way or crowns way," its more of, "everyone who complains about the volume and difficulty, be more specific. using the different years as examples." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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