The Roof Will Be Open

[audiodb]

For example:

(Jeff Ream)

makes sense....tho...(dont shoot me)...you should have said that several weeks ago

You could have said "Thanks for the info, Bob" and let it go, but you chose to turn it into another complaint. You know what happens to people who keep getting beat up while they're trying to do the right thing? They stop trying.

Yeah, that one did make me cringe.

[JimF-LowBari]

Wow. Now that this cat is out of the bag, we need to regroup and come up with another tactic. We hadn't considered the kidnapping part, however.

Surprised no one brought up "You will be assimilated" as per the old Star Trek Next Generation.

We're short on storage space and need as many people in the seats as possible.

Ooops, now we're with the old pod people in "Invasion of the Body Snatchers". Yeah I'm old, I even got the :Shimmer" reference Chevy....

Edited March 25, 2010 by JimF-3rdBari

[bawker]

Wow. Now that this cat is out of the bag, we need to regroup and come up with another tactic. We hadn't considered the kidnapping part, however. We're short on storage space and need as many people in the seats as possible.

Well, I got a little suspicious when the application asked me if I was claustrophobic or suffered from Stockholm syndrome . . . and it was signed "Snidely Whiplash".

[DrumCorps2008]

makes sense....tho...( dont shoot me)...you should have said that several weeks ago

You lose any and all credibility with the constant jabs you throw at someone trying to help.

[Jeff Ream]

Wow. Now that this cat is out of the bag, we need to regroup and come up with another tactic. We hadn't considered the kidnapping part, however. We're short on storage space and need as many people in the seats as possible.

now I know why you mentionmed handcuffs. Here I thought a corps was going to try and out S&M the Renegades from a few years ago

[Jeff Ream]

You lose any and all credibility with the constant jabs you throw at someone trying to help.

really? Given what many others have said on here, I think the few suggestions I have offered have been good and well thought out. Hmph. Sometimes helping out isn't always telling the peaches and cream version.

[Richard]

you're right Richard. People who pay all that money to go to finals should just accept it all and not voice their opinions.

DCI has done more than a few good things since the New Year. But you can not change people's perception overnight, and that article didn't help.

The good news is Bob is committed to continue to working it, and here's hoping it will pay off. It may not be overnight, and you will always have critics, and if they bother you so much...you have two options:

ignore them

stop coming here.

And yes, show design may have drawn a lot of criticism. Remember, the paying customers know what they like. Luckily, DCI has taken on Bob's approach and trying to communicate more openly and trying to work on things like the upcoming fan roundtables, and not just being as dismissive as you are to anyone whose opinion you don't want to see or hear.

It's not the existence of the critics that bothers me, it's the extent to which they perpetrate a falsified negative image of the activity to those who are less informed. And that's exactly what those who are steadfastly opposed to electronics and modern show design want: more people to believe that DCI is misguided and to join the legion of loud complainers. So they’ll find something to nitpick about each of DCI’s decisions to perpetrate that image of a bumbling organization. Now I know that sound pretty far-fetched and nefarious, but it's human nature to want to be proven right, either through facts to back up statements or through like-minded contributors who will agree with you and tell you that you're right. I enjoy every time Bob comes on here and says good things about the direction DCI is headed because it validates my viewpoint. I enjoy many of perc2100's, glory's, Kamarag's, and select others' posts because they often agree with my viewpoint. It feels good to feel like you're right, even if you being right involves your favorite hobby/activity struggling to survive. So if someone truly believes that amps and electronics are driving away enough fans of the activity to hurt it, then they’ll take some secret satisfaction if they’re ever proven right. Of course no one will admit to that because it's such an embarrassing and selfish viewpoint, but it's human nature.

And there’s a difference between voicing your opinion (e.g. “I hope they take steps to improve the sound in Lucas Oil Stadium because there is significant room for improvement”) and blasting DCI (e.g. “LOS sucks, what a stupid and asinine decision it was to sign that contract.”). And if voicing your opinion was the true concern, wouldn’t it be better voiced to DCI directly? Instead of coming here to a handful of posters who will say “you’re right, it does suck and DCI is stupid. Why don’t they just admit how stupid they are? Gosh!”?

ANYWAY, I don’t expect perception to change. People will complain about DCI’s every move unless they repeal electronics, stop “prancing around the field” and “play a hummable melody” (whatever that means). I’m just going to fire back about it and try to point out that those criticisms are based on nothing other than “I don’t like it because I don’t like it” and if the critics agreed with the product on the field then they would complain significantly less.

Also, given the options for dealing with critics, I think it’s pretty clear that the BOD has chosen option 1 (ignore them) when it comes to show design and rules proposals. Which is, low and behold, something that is ALSO frequently lamented here (“the BOD doesn’t consider what the fans want!”).

The fan roundtables and things of that nature are certainly a commendable attempted olive branch from DCI (despite the fact that the hostile relationship has been significantly one-sided), but I would bet I could give similar responses as DCI would if the gripes on here are at all indicative of what they’ll hear at the roundtable. What topics do you think would be raised? I’d guess mostly these:

- Fans: “Lucas Oil Stadium sound sucks”

- DCI: “We’re working to improve it and trying quarters with the roof open”

- Fans: “Amps and Electronics are driving away large percentages of your fan base”

- DCI: “There are many factors that cause fans to leave the activity of which some may be a&e, but we are not seeing a widespread migration of fans away from the activity.”

Now, here on DCP those explanations are usually followed up with a series of “yeah, but…”s (e.g. “yeah, but having the roof open for only part of the show is unfair!”), and then a series of rational explanations that could possibly and may very well likely reflect DCI’s thinking for those decisions (same example: “well a/c challenges and performers’ comfort make opening it for the whole show infeasible”). But those explanations are usually dismissed until a representative of DCI explains them.

Now a lot of good could and hopefully will still come out of these roundtables, because fans often have great ideas and suggestions like audiodb’s suggestion to have a corps do some sound tests at LOS during spring training. I certainly did not think of that, so I can see how DCI might not have either (and that’s the barometer I use for likelihood of DCI taking something into account, is it something I, as an inexperienced individual, would have considered? If yes, then I’m trusting their experience). But yeah, there could be some great brainstorming and idea sharing that goes on, just don’t expect them to repeal electronics because fans at a roundtable are going to anecdotally claim that the activity is dying.

I guess you’re right though, I should stop coming here because I obviously don’t like the product and what good does it do for me to complain about something over which I have relatively little control, right? I swear I’ve heard that before somewhere…

Lastly, credit to Bob for handling the often embellished negativity with considerably more tact than I, although I benefit from not being a representative of DCI in that regard.

[jpaul]

I think many of us have lightened up. I know I have. I've praised DCI more in the last 3 weeks than I have in the last 10 years.

and Any good business can NOT give up. I mean ok, if you want to be like Toyota and try and push the blame off elsewhere, fine. Isn't helping them any

Individuals certainly can and do give up when their hard work is constantly met with complaints and criticism. The canceled series of articles is a perfect example. DCI was making an effort to inform and educate the public. Early attempts were met with so much criticism that they killed the rest of the series. If you see no benefit from your actions, you'll stop trying.

Edited March 25, 2010 by jpaul

[Slow Adam]

DCI was making an effort to inform and educate the public. Their first attempt was met with so much criticism that they killed the rest of the series.

Call it what you want, but that first article was not an effort to inform and educate.

[Jeff Ream]

It's not the existence of the critics that bothers me, it's the extent to which they perpetrate a falsified negative image of the activity to those who are less informed. And that's exactly what those who are steadfastly opposed to electronics and modern show design want: more people to believe that DCI is misguided and to join the legion of loud complainers. So they'll find something to nitpick about each of DCI's decisions to perpetrate that image of a bumbling organization. Now I know that sound pretty far-fetched and nefarious, but it's human nature to want to be proven right, either through facts to back up statements or through like-minded contributors who will agree with you and tell you that you're right. I enjoy every time Bob comes on here and says good things about the direction DCI is headed because it validates my viewpoint. I enjoy many of perc2100's, glory's, Kamarag's, and select others' posts because they often agree with my viewpoint. It feels good to feel like you're right, even if you being right involves your favorite hobby/activity struggling to survive. So if someone truly believes that amps and electronics are driving away enough fans of the activity to hurt it, then they'll take some secret satisfaction if they're ever proven right. Of course no one will admit to that because it's such an embarrassing and selfish viewpoint, but it's human nature.

And there's a difference between voicing your opinion (e.g. "I hope they take steps to improve the sound in Lucas Oil Stadium because there is significant room for improvement") and blasting DCI (e.g. "LOS sucks, what a stupid and asinine decision it was to sign that contract."). And if voicing your opinion was the true concern, wouldn't it be better voiced to DCI directly? Instead of coming here to a handful of posters who will say "you're right, it does suck and DCI is stupid. Why don't they just admit how stupid they are? Gosh!"?

ANYWAY, I don't expect perception to change. People will complain about DCI's every move unless they repeal electronics, stop "prancing around the field" and "play a hummable melody" (whatever that means). I'm just going to fire back about it and try to point out that those criticisms are based on nothing other than "I don't like it because I don't like it" and if the critics agreed with the product on the field then they would complain significantly less.

Also, given the options for dealing with critics, I think it's pretty clear that the BOD has chosen option 1 (ignore them) when it comes to show design and rules proposals. Which is, low and behold, something that is ALSO frequently lamented here ("the BOD doesn't consider what the fans want!").

The fan roundtables and things of that nature are certainly a commendable attempted olive branch from DCI (despite the fact that the hostile relationship has been significantly one-sided), but I would bet I could give similar responses as DCI would if the gripes on here are at all indicative of what they'll hear at the roundtable. What topics do you think would be raised? I'd guess mostly these:

- Fans: "Lucas Oil Stadium sound sucks"

- DCI: "We're working to improve it and trying quarters with the roof open"

- Fans: "Amps and Electronics are driving away large percentages of your fan base"

- DCI: "There are many factors that cause fans to leave the activity of which some may be a&e, but we are not seeing a widespread migration of fans away from the activity."

Now, here on DCP those explanations are usually followed up with a series of "yeah, but…"s (e.g. "yeah, but having the roof open for only part of the show is unfair!"), and then a series of rational explanations that could possibly and may very well likely reflect DCI's thinking for those decisions (same example: "well a/c challenges and performers' comfort make opening it for the whole show infeasible"). But those explanations are usually dismissed until a representative of DCI explains them.

Now a lot of good could and hopefully will still come out of these roundtables, because fans often have great ideas and suggestions like audiodb's suggestion to have a corps do some sound tests at LOS during spring training. I certainly did not think of that, so I can see how DCI might not have either (and that's the barometer I use for likelihood of DCI taking something into account, is it something I, as an inexperienced individual, would have considered? If yes, then I'm trusting their experience). But yeah, there could be some great brainstorming and idea sharing that goes on, just don't expect them to repeal electronics because fans at a roundtable are going to anecdotally claim that the activity is dying.

I guess you're right though, I should stop coming here because I obviously don't like the product and what good does it do for me to complain about something over which I have relatively little control, right? I swear I've heard that before somewhere…

Lastly, credit to Bob for handling the often embellished negativity with considerably more tact than I, although I benefit from not being a representative of DCI in that regard.

Honestly....I think you're stretching a bit much here, especially in the beginning. I don't think ANYONE ( sorry for going RAMD there0 wants people to leave. I don't think those you label complainers wanted to leave. They wanted to be entertained, and they don't feel they are, so they are speaking up. I think those unhappy with the decisions for retreat or LOS want to feel that way or want others to stop going because of it..they are expressing their dissatisfaction. While I've not been a fan of some recent changes, I haven't advocating people stay away. Sure I've told people if they are that miserable to stop coming around. Why pay and keep going back if you hate it that much? I even did it for 2 years. The group I was with cancelled their Friends membership, didnt go to local shows, regionals, finals, or even the theater. I went back in 06 to Allentown because a former student begged me to. So I did...I was encouraged that maybe, show design wise, DCI was turning a corner....so in 07, due to scheduling, I went to the theater. I wasn't as enthused as I was in 06, but hey, you can't hit a homerun every year, so i went back to Allentown in 08 and the theater. Honestly, Thank God for Phantom and Crown...that helped reign in many fans that may have been on the edge. So, now I'm back as 09 gave me some more reason for hope. I'm truly hoping 2010 turns out even better. Tho, if LOS is still a bomb, my season will end at Allentown for future years.

many people voiced their opinions here AND to DCI. is that a bad thing? It's almost as if you don't want anyone to say anything bad on here about DCI. That will NEVER happen. Accept it. Embrace it. Have fun with it even. but because someone voices their opinion, if you don't like it, true or not, you just label them all as complainers. That, IMO, is just as inaccurate as that which you accuse others of doing.

DCI is not just an educational group, it's also an entertainment organization. As such, you will have complaints. Just as tv shows have reviewers and forums full of complaints, and broadway, and movies, etc. Same with pro sports. DCP is tame compared to WIP in Philly when it comes to bashing. That isn't sports radio, it's full contact radio. It makes Howard Stern look tame.( I know, I listen to both).

as for the roundtables....I have a hunch it will be a very open and honest forum for both sides to cover a multitude of topics. I can't see them going into something like this unprepared for any eventuality. Given that content from the Januals on the Fan Network, I expect a lot more honest give and take and detailed explanations that how you summarized it above.

Why? I have faith in DCI that to go this route, they will not do it half ###ed. It seems to me their marketing consultants are taking notes. Who knows...LOL...they may even be reading DCP. As far as more detailed explanations...I say the more the better. Openness and, even a brutal frankness can go a long way. Sure, there may still be a few critics, but I bet that more detailed explanations HELPS DCI, not hurts them.

maybe electronics will stay. Ok fine. But....there may be some great information coming from the fans that designers make take into account...which in turn could lead to fan happiness. Now that's not so bad is it?

But...again...many people don't want to leave DCI. So yes, maybe some get too loud stating their complaints. Look at it this way...they care. I'd rather they care then just give up and be apathetic.

and Bob gets huge kudos. He's done a lot to help DCI's image to even some of it's harshest critics