New tour concept for 2011 proposed

[garfield]

My apologies if this has already been addressed in this or other threads... I haven't had a chance to read through all the various posts:

The one question I have with this entire scenario is, and I am not trying to be sarcastic or flip here, because I honestly have no idea what the answer is..... why don't the "G7"... top seven... whatever..... just go ahead next season and go off on their own to try out the new touring/performance/compensation

concept they are proposing?

Maybe I'm completely off base here.... but it seems to me that:

1) By basically relegating the other World Class corps to what appears to be second-tier touring status in 2011, the G7's quite possibly won't be making many friends among the management and members of the other corps next season.

2) By trying to change the voting, compensation and management rules and structure of DCI, the G7's, in effect, want to take complete control of the circuit.

I guess my point is.... if they are confident their new approach will work... and who knows, perhaps it will (to be honest, I do see some merit in at least parts of their proposal)... why not go try out the new concept on their own, without running the risk of alienating the other corps in DCI, along with the possibility of alienating a number of DCI fans and supporters?

Why ask the other corps to go along with this idea, when those other corps would seem to be left with the short end of the stick, at least in 2011? Why should those other corps take the leap of faith that someday, perhaps, they'll be added to the new power-sharing structure?

It's a simple answer, Fran, and a key difference between what's happening now and what Don Warren was part of in '71. This time, this group doesn't want to go off on it's own. Don Warren could have tried to take over the VFW and use their infrastructure (and change it?) to meet his vision. But instead he took his corps on the road and took the chances himself (as a group). This group wants to change the nature of the activity to match their vision.

I would be greatly disappointed but would feel completely differently if they went off and "proved" their concept. My difficulty with the idea is that they want to drag the rest of us with them.

They don't want a clean cut like Warren needed. They want to forward "proposals" and test the water, then raid the castle, steal the women, and call it their own.

(OK, maybe that last was a little over the top...sorry)

Fran

It's a simple answer, Fran, and a key difference between what's happening now and what Don Warren was part of in '71. This time, this group doesn't want to go off on it's own. Don Warren could have tried to take over the VFW and use their infrastructure (and change it?) to meet his vision. But instead he took his corps on the road and took the chances himself (as a group). This group wants to change the nature of the activity to match their vision.

I would be greatly disappointed but would feel completely differently if they went off and "proved" their concept. My difficulty with the idea is that they want to drag the rest of us with them.

They don't want a clean cut like Warren needed. They want to forward "proposals" and test the water, then raid the castle, steal the women, and call it their own.

(OK, maybe that last was a little over the top...sorry)

Edited May 20, 2010 by garfield

[BigPapiBass5]

The stock market dropped 376 points today...obviously as a reaction to this

What's DCIs stock at?

[ShortAndFast]

can't they just elect people from the 17-22 corps as their representatives?

then pass something that says if you are participating in the DCI tour, any competition fees that you get from other areas must be divided among the entire group of corps? So if BD makes $2000 to show up at a Greedy7 show outside of the DCI schedule, then each World Class corps will get ~$100 as a result?

Sure, they could. And the "Greedy 7" could decide to leave entirely and DCI plus a lot of the non-G7 corps go bankrupt after losing 1/2 their audience and 2/3 of their sponsors. My point is that both groups are better served by negotiating than by drawing lines in the sand. They can likely both get some of what they want, and live with the result.

[ShortAndFast]

The Cascades need BD, but not this much.

I do think that some of the more offensive items in the proposal were included so they could be dropped as a "concession" during negotiations in July. Then in a couple of years we'll see the same proposals, some will be negotiated out, some pushed through, and so on. It's a stretch, but it makes good political sense. It's worked in drum corps and elsewhere before.

The Cascades may be a bad example - the status quo isn't looking so hot for them either - but certainly Madison or Blue Stars or Troopers need the G7, but not this much. My guess is that the new revenue share is what's really important to the G7, and that's what they're going to get. The other issues like changing DCI's governance or firing Dan and the DCI staff seem more peripheral and easy to drop in July.

[Threats]

Here is what is going to happen:

The G7 corps will get more money. Because they have actually defined themselves as a "higher league," they will also begin to get even more auditionees with the all-or-nothing mentality.

The smaller corps, facing decreased show money and even more dwindling numbers, will start to fall one by one.

Talented staff members, seeing the writing on the wall, will start jumping ship.

Write this down:

In 2012, we will lose one corps.

In 2013, we will lose three corps.

In 2014, we will lose two corps.

No new corps will come into existence during these three years, though a few Open Class corps may move into whatever the upper level, non-G7 league will be called.

By 2020, we will be down to 10 "supercorps," exactly as George Hopkins called for 10 years ago, and exactly as he currently wants and is manipulating events.

With no other corps to really fill out shows, contests will dwindle and become fewer in number.

By 2025, drum corps as we know it will be extinct, either merged with BOA or transformed into a creature we can't possibly understand at the moment.

[garfield]

I can just see the G7 Directors (and some of the others) reading this stuff and saying, “there goes DCP again, shoulding all over themselves!” But I am surprised to see so many of the more “level-headed” crowd getting unglued on this thread. We should just blame it all on the new Arizona law! As a matter of fact, these elitest G7 sons-a-xxxxx's will probably want the "non-G7's" to carry around a special ID and be forced to "play scales" and "paradiddles" at various check points to prove their legit. Yeah, this is a real power take over!!

IMO, this whole thing can be explained by the following scenario:

You are an organization that is promoting a DCI show next summer. You have time/room on the bill for 8 corps. You "personally" have no favorite corps , and "the local corps" is already on the bill (and it's not a G7 corps). Your lineup (not announced yet) currently only includes one G7 Corps. You will obviously sink or swim based on the "buzz" and the resultant gate receipts. Suddenly, you have an opportunity to replace 3 of the corps with "G7" corps. Again, your lineup has NOT been announced, so no one knows or gets insulted by your decision. What would you do???

This hypothetical scenario doesn't take into consideration, geography, the tour matrix, or other real impacts....it's just about the "value added" by a G7 corps competition.

I think if you answered honestly, you would chose to have G7's on the bill. If you're not the organizer or dependent financially on the success of the event, you may answer differently.

To me, it appears that Hoppy and the others are simply attempting to expand the market draw of the activity. They appear to be respecting the other corps, the spirit of DCI competition and the longevity of the activity in general. If you think about it, there's nothing new about singing and dancing, but some smart marketing folks re-packaged it and now it's American Idol & Dancing with the Stars. Hyper-ventilate if you want, but I'm giving these proven successes a chance to find the next level (even if it means leaving my beloved Granny Smith in the parking lot ).

All right, let's look at another scenario. And we don't have to guess because I'm actually involved with the local show. A good one. With a great lineup.

Next year, with the E7 doing their own circuit, there's no way I can realistically expect one of them to be at my show. What I'm left with is the hope that I can draw a crowd big enough to pay for the show. I can tell you first hand the odds of that are slim. So, on the hope that I can one day attract a top-tier corps I keep the show going. Pouring my own money and time into keeping it going through the lean years, only hoping someday the show will support itself. On the hope that the Elite-7 will grace my show? Why in the world would I do that? Furthermore, alignment with the "scholastic" music world means open instrumentation. So I'll be hoping to get a big name "Marching Band" to do my show? Who's going to come to that?

Our show is tied to our local (struggling) corps. The show's profits are split with that corps. If I can't get butts in the seats because it's not unique enough for anyone to care, there will be no profits to share.

Yes, we look for the majors to support the minor leagues in this activity. It's always been that way in recognition of the difficulty in attaining championship quality. The sad fact is that without the major draw to the show the show folds, and possibly the local shows fold as well.

[nemesiscorps]

You're probably right. But I'm an optimist. If we agree that the current model isn't working, and that the drum corps activity is in a decaying orbit, then it makes sense to me to at least try for something more.

Yes, it does make sense to try something different if the current model is failing. What doesn't make sense is to entertain the thoughts of following a path laid out by those same individuals that are responsible for the current failures. Any criticism of the current DCI model by any G7 organization holds no credibility in my book. They're the ones that made this bed, and by always looking out for only themselves, they've played a major role in destroying many good, fundamental aspects of this once strong activity, and this latest assault is just another example. For this we should be optimistic by similar proposals stemming from these same hacks?

[bill]

Sorry, ain't going to happen. I was just outside helping my Mayan next door neighbor with some blood and animal sacrifices; plus some lawn work. He mentioned we may be failing to remember according to his Mayan calendar, we're all going to be teets-up on December 21, 2012.

Here is what is going to happen:

The G7 corps will get more money. Because they have actually defined themselves as a "higher league," they will also begin to get even more auditionees with the all-or-nothing mentality.

The smaller corps, facing decreased show money and even more dwindling numbers, will start to fall one by one.

Talented staff members, seeing the writing on the wall, will start jumping ship.

Write this down:

In 2012, we will lose one corps.

In 2013, we will lose three corps.

In 2014, we will lose two corps.

No new corps will come into existence during these three years, though a few Open Class corps may move into whatever the upper level, non-G7 league will be called.

By 2020, we will be down to 10 "supercorps," exactly as George Hopkins called for 10 years ago, and exactly as he currently wants and is manipulating events.

With no other corps to really fill out shows, contests will dwindle and become fewer in number.

By 2025, drum corps as we know it will be extinct, either merged with BOA or transformed into a creature we can't possibly understand at the moment.

[jjeffeory]

Here is what is going to happen:

The G7 corps will get more money. Because they have actually defined themselves as a "higher league," they will also begin to get even more auditionees with the all-or-nothing mentality.

The smaller corps, facing decreased show money and even more dwindling numbers, will start to fall one by one.

Talented staff members, seeing the writing on the wall, will start jumping ship.

Write this down:

In 2012, we will lose one corps.

In 2013, we will lose three corps.

In 2014, we will lose two corps.

No new corps will come into existence during these three years, though a few Open Class corps may move into whatever the upper level, non-G7 league will be called.

By 2020, we will be down to 10 "supercorps," exactly as George Hopkins called for 10 years ago, and exactly as he currently wants and is manipulating events.

With no other corps to really fill out shows, contests will dwindle and become fewer in number.

By 2025, drum corps as we know it will be extinct, either merged with BOA or transformed into a creature we can't possibly understand at the moment.

....and people will be on here declaring it to be the best thing since sliced bread.

[BonBon]

Sorry, ain't going to happen. I was just outside helping my Mayan next door neighbor with some blood and animal sacrifices; plus some lawn work. He mentioned we may be failing to remember according to his Mayan calendar, we're all going to be teets-up on December 21, 2012.

BWAHAHAHAHAHA