Official DCP G7 Proposal Discussion Thread

[audiodb]

I love this proposal. It's not perfect, but it's a dang good start.

Why? Because when you take out all the "my feelings are getting hurt" BS and realize that DCI is, in fact, in trouble you might realize that this proposal could very well save Drum Corps.

Still waiting for corroboration on this "DCI on the brink of death" hysteria.

I'm so sick of people not being able to get past the whole "elitism" thing to realize the truth. The great majority of the ticket paying fan base out there do not go to shows to see the bottom corps.

I'm so sick of people not being able to grasp the concept that without the "bottom corps", there are no "top corps"....and people go to see competition as well as artistry.

This proposal is drenched in pragmatism. If good business ticks off a few old-schoolers then so be it.

Great business wouldn't tick off legacy fans.

Changes like this will bring in fans to replace you.

How will taking voting rights away from corps bring in new fans? How will firing half the DCI staff bring in new fans? How will excluding the other 40 corps from the process bring in new fans?

If this were really just about creating additional events and nothing else....events with pre-show and post-show activity, instant encores, interactive warm-up zones, fan judging....and a door....then there would be no provisions for "two votes for each of us, none for you", or firing half the DCI staff, or taking Fridays and Sundays away from the other corps.

[Rich]

3. My source is DCI Event Operations. I asked a question of them and was told 15,500 and then they asked me not to say anything, but that was a year ago and before Dan's firing...ooops...disagreement with some current DCI Board members.

Tom, not only has Dan Acheson been fired, when is DCI going to release a statement that George Hopkins also has been fired from the board of directors of DCI?

I heard all the big wigs on the board (that are in G7) were released as board members of DCI. But, they don't care. This will be the beginning of the end for drum corps. If the elite corps can get Cirque du Soleil to produce their season, they may be on to something and everyone can make some money.

[garfield]

The ONLY aspect of this proposal that holds any interest for me at all is the ability for the audience to get to know some of the inner workings of drum corps a little more intimately. I think we could actually do that without the rest of this proposal. We could conceivably have a show segment called "The Lot" where, once a week, one of the major draws for a show (I'd say any top 12 corps, or maybe top 8 or 10 or whatever) takes a night off from competition and they do an on field, interactive LOT show. (or maybe they don't take the night off, but they are "The Lot" that night.) Staff and corps members could be available to take questions and talk to visitors at some point as well.

I don't know how exactly to make this work in terms of placement in the flow of a show night, but I bet someone would come up with a working model.

Problem is that these impromptu "clinic" will compete directly with BD's clinic program. Unless, of course, if BD is running "The Lot"...

[garfield]

Still waiting for corroboration on this "DCI on the brink of death" hysteria.

I'm so sick of people not being able to grasp the concept that without the "bottom corps", there are no "top corps"....and people go to see competition as well as artistry.

Great business wouldn't tick off legacy fans.

How will taking voting rights away from corps bring in new fans? How will firing half the DCI staff bring in new fans? How will excluding the other 40 corps from the process bring in new fans?

If this were really just about creating additional events and nothing else....events with pre-show and post-show activity, instant encores, interactive warm-up zones, fan judging....and a door....then there would be no provisions for "two votes for each of us, none for you", or firing half the DCI staff, or taking Fridays and Sundays away from the other corps.

CLASSIC!

[JimF-LowBari]

I'm so sick of people not being able to grasp the concept that without the "bottom corps", there are no "top corps"....and people go to see competition as well as artistry.

If anyone wants to bet the attendance at regionals and Finals will go up with less corps, I'll take the bet.

One cool thing about DCA Finals is there are two Championships going on in the evening. First the top 3 or 4 (keeps chcanging) smaller Class As go on then the top 10 Open Class large corps. Since I've started attending again, something interesting usually gos on in the Class A Finals, be it a new corps, upsets or an corps on the way back.

Edited May 25, 2010 by JimF-LowBari

[luvs me sum mello!]

good business says when you rpopose changes, you show research to back it up...we havent seen any in years

good business says you keep current customers as well as add new ones. we havent seen that in years

so...wanna talk to me, a guy who runs a business, about good business again? right there they blew to cardinal rules

And who has been running the whole fan base thing the whole time? It was DCI, not the corps, that have been running the big events. DCI has failed to make money. Sure for the past years we've gotten nothing but sunshine and good news from DCI. They're a business selling a product. What business publicizes their failure?

So the big corps, the ones who actually have some real weight in bringing in new people to the activity as well as keeping the old ones have decided to call DCI out on it and take charge of some changes.

"They" (the G7) did blow the cardinal rule.

[audiodb]

you are serious in wanting to go here? really?

Here's what I'd like you to do. Sit in on semifinals afternoon session with your calculator. Start clicking again when the gates open during the intermission for the top 7. I see some variables here...Madison at 15th...but it's really very illuminating.

Indeed....you should try it. Academy (14th) had more butts in seats than Madison (15th) in 2009.

The proof is in the everyday arguments here about the importance of going in the stands during the Open Class and lower end WC corps. Where are the people? Out in the lots watching Cavies, Crown, Cadets, etc. WARMING UP. I've been there before. More people watching BD do 8 on a hand than are in the stands watching Mandarins. So, there's your statistics.

Which proves what? That when people know who will win, they'll watch the winners?

You might recall that back in the day when we didn't know who the winners would be in advance, the number of people in the stands didn't fluctuate much for different corps....and no one was in the lot watching anyone warm up. Get that competitive parity back, and the warmup audience will return to their seats.

I know your response will be that the other corps should "get better". Let me know if you can explain how taking away their voting rights, money and show access will help them "get better".

[Richard]

OK, how is this greedy. I've heard this countless times and I grow weary of just throwing out the word...these guys are just greedy. I don't believe it.

What I do believe is the corps directors, following the season...got a chance to look at the books of DCI...you know...the stuff they have little time for during the season because they are each minding their own stores at that point.

1. They weren't happy with what they were seeing. Please trust me here, because I know a few of these guys and a few others outside the "gang of" like the director of Pioneer, yeah I saw it listed.

2. I think they made some pretty tough decisions. Namely, that DCI as a management structure was hemorrhaging money. All they had made in 2006 and 2007 had disappeared. They aren't going to blame themselves, so the "direction of DCI's management" (read Dan Acheson) is called into question.

3. With DCI marketing and selling stuff with corps' names on it and audio/video products with the corps performances on them, the corps in question want a new relationship. Actually, they want everyone to have a new relationship with marketing. No selling against the corps by DCI. It's really much of a return back to the old days.

4. I actually see the structure as stated, having paths to climb for corps who chose to do so. The simple message...GET BETTER. No two corps better demonstrate this than do Crown and Blue Stars. Yes, one in and one out of the G7, but Blue Stars have made huge strides in the past 6-7 years. Some corps simply make getting better a phrase, a motto, but, sadly are unable to make huge efforts to make it so for a variety of reasons, one of which is that most of the alumni of some corps have a better corps where they finished their career, got their ring, etc.

5. There are two factors contributing to all this angst. First, the mouthpiece. Don't you think that's a calculated determination? "Hey, let's get Hop to do this." And, Hop doesn't mind. He's been controversial since forever. But, Hop is one of seven, all in agreement. The next factor, I believe too many people, who are rabid enough to post here frequently...(yes, me included)...were thinking everything was fine when, in fact, some pretty massive miscalculations took place. 2006...Madison...good crowds. 2007....Pasadena....massive crowds. The trend was already starting though...and remember this is prior to the recession...regional shows had some hit/miss performance...remember Murphfreesboro 2007? So, then the recession begins in 2007-08 and 09 as DCI bands (all puns...you can have them) with Indy. Indy is late. Then Indy is crap. 15,500 paid at finals. Over 2000 fewer then the ad hoc Bloomington and more than 12,000 fewer than Pasadena.

So, revenue is headed to the equator while expenses were flat or even slightly rising. Now, we have a high 5 figure (perhaps low 6 figure) Exec. Dir. and these 7 guys look at their pocketbooks and their corps' take of DCIs....wait for it....profits. I bet the books were so bad last year, this 10+ year old idea was resurrected to take control of the future for the corps who think they are the featured performers.

Maybe the sky is falling....maybe not. I tend to think we've been headed this way off and on since the late 1980s. We've had a series of peaks and valleys, the peaks smaller or at least less predictable, the valleys, definitely deeper.

6. I like to predict. So, here goes. I think today's Madison corps could quickly assume an 8th spot when offered. I see them more ready than Blue Stars and Boston with their recent forward momentum. Boston made great strides on the field last season at the same time the Blue Stars took a step back in my mind. I would consider them both even at this point for an opportunity to move up.

7. Will Hickman and Orwell make statements soon? These will be very telling if they come forward.

Well, that's my current list.

Pretty insightful post right here.

Well, so much for one argument: "Drum Corps International is in danger fiscally. Poor attendance...has put the organization’s continued existence in

jeopardy." Now then; who's going to feed my a heaping plate of crow

I'll have what he's having.

or is it that Hopkins will spin something to make his point? Dont accept their assertions.

The corps who I have no respect for, in a proposal that is demanding they overthrow the kingdom, would paint the most dismal picture they can.

This is an excellent point.

But if we take the assertions in the proposal at their word, it leaves the activity in quite a bind:

- Some want to improve the performance quality across the board. To do this, the second/third tier and Open Class corps need to put out a higher quality product. This requires a talented staff (which almost always costs more money) and semi-talented and interested kids (and many OC corps can barely field 40 brass players).

- Do we even care any more about the experience being provided to kids in corps like Pioneer? Or is it just that their show sucks and the play to 5 people in the stands so they either need to get better or GTFO?

The way I see it, attendance will increase with better performance, which requires better recruiting, likely increased tuition to offset the increased staff salaries to put a competitive product on the field (and this works against the increased recruiting efforts nicely). So once that's miraculously done, there will (hopefully!!) be a bigger audience and fiscal solvency for drum corps. Easy, right?

This doesn't even take into account the formation of new corps or Open Class at all really.

Some want to move Open Class to a regional touring model. If regional circuits even existed (and they don't, as stated by many), there are hardly enough corps to fill them out and make them interesting for members and audience members alike. Who do Oregon Crusaders and Spokane Thunder compete against besides each other? Who do Dutch Boy (if/when they come back), Blue Saints and Les Stentors compete against? Who does the newly formed Platinum (North Carolina) and Music City (Tennessee) compete against? To make regional touring work, you need a pretty big region to have any kind of competition. Here’s the current geographical breakdown of Open Class

California: 8 corps

Texas: 3 corps

New Jersey: 2 corps

New England: 2 corps (NH, CT)

Canada: 2 corps (ON, QC)

Northwest: 2 corps (OR, WA)

Midwest: 3 corps (WI, MI, IA)

"South": 2 corps (TN, NC)

How is regional touring going to work again?

EDIT: Oh, and kids don't want to do regional touring. They do that in the fall already.

Now before anyone tells me that it's easier to point out problems than it is to come up with solutions, I know. But a lot of the "solutions" being discussed here fail to see the entire picture.

DCI needs to somehow figure out how to do the following all at once:

1. reduce costs for everyone (all corps, audience, members)

2. increase member participation (members often make the most dedicated fans too)

3. increase audience attendance

Is that even possible? The G7 proposal seems squarely focused on item 3 while punting the other two. There has to be a better compromise in there somewhere, I just have no idea what it is.

Edited May 25, 2010 by Richard

[luvs me sum mello!]

Good god there are more straw men in this thread then a corn field. It's actually kind of amusing.

[Plan9]

Did Blast increase the drum corps audience?

It did for me and my family. Not being involved with marching anything up to that point, I actually remember thinking (at the time) "Man, those snares are sure tuned very high". The following year I became band parent president of a soon to be 4-time State Champion H.S. Marching Band (3 times on my watch). It mattered.

Edited May 25, 2010 by Plan9