Official DCP G7 Proposal Discussion Thread

[audiodb]

I will attempt to recapture my indignation. I do not "support" the proposal in the manner you are suggesting. I don't know or believe that this proposal will result in the smaller corps demise. Like most of us attempting to break through the anti G7 agenda on this thread (a formidable task) I have been suggesting that we need to listen to what comes of this. These are proven successful leaders and historically represent the most consistent performing corps in the activity.

My ears are open....but I don't like what they are hearing.

As much as I'd like to play along with your exercise in political correctness, I think it is time to make a distinction here. Some parts of Many parts of this proposal are so objectionably self-serving, short-sighted and inflammatory that they NEVER should have been committed to paper, much less circulated to other people....and certainly not presented to the corps they denigrate.

It doesn't surprise me that a few people are still here, urging the rest of us to give the G7 a chance because there is some small portion of the proposal's content that is worthy of discussion. But that discussion is far, far less likely to take place in the context of a wider proposal that makes open-class walk the plank and subjugates the rest of the corps to the G7 in voting, remuneration and even simple access to shows.

There are many things I will listen to - shows with top corps lineups, experimental event formats, review of the Indy deal....even the concept of how many corps DCI can support. But the other stuff - the power grab - what more do I need to hear?

You speak of what the G7 represent "historically", yet you say you are a relative newcomer to the activity. I don't know your level of familiarity with drum corps history. I know some....like why/how DCI was formed. To make a long story short, DCI was formed to address a number of shortcomings that all corps suffered from under VFW/AL....but at the same time, it was formed by top corps, for top corps. As a result, there has always been a dissonance between DCI's mission and DCI's governance. When top corps rule the roost, they tend to their own interests before those of the collective. History is replete with examples of this tendency....but this G7 proposal tops them all in audacity.

In my opinion, any sincere attempt to establish dialogue on show lineups, show formats or right-sizing of DCI must now be preceded by the formal disbandment of the G7, publicly-stated commitment by the former G7 corps to work within and among the full DCI governing body, and removal of all the proposed provisions that take votes, money or shows away from other DCI member corps.

[Plan9]

If, for example the Blue Devils, took their 2009 show production into " new markets ", without serious rewrites, added popular appeal, imo, they'd drown in an " Ocean " of debt. That show would not work with most non DCI audiences. ( It barely worked with the small DCI audiences )

Even the Star of Indiana when they bolted from DCI didn't go with the typical avarte garde " out there " DCI show. They knew that was a non starter beyond the niche, high brow DCI judged competition format where " demand " is given considerable weight in the scoring. So they went the popular approach route, ..... and it became a popular success. The G-7 if they bolted from DCI would not replicate their typical on field DCI competitive shows. Simply put, they'd be no popular appeal sufficient enough to make a buck in the process, imo.

Perhaps. But you're missing my point about the Blue Ocean. For example, Cirque evaluated the 3 ring circus (in it's different forms and venues) and re-invented it. It took away the animals, added uninterruped tempo, great acoustics, a little sex, eye-popping in your face gynastics and performers integrated into the crowd. The audience didn't feel part it, they were part of it. Now please don't make parallels between some of these innovations and what the G7 are proposing. You're going to see drop dead great shows from all them this year and by the way, your analysis of 1930 is just that...your analysis. But you did say, imo.

[dbc03]

The funniest thing about these threads has been the people who normally cry about drum corps dying and DCI won't be around in 10 years if things keep going the way they are going are now the same people saying DCI is fine and there is no reason to make any changes.

[audiodb]

Glad to see the sky is still falling so i can jump in on the discussion after sleeping on it I'm convinced of 3 things (all my personal observations/opinions):

1. These corps have put a lot of money into equipment purchases, marketing, infrastructure, etc... and are tired of getting the same cut as organizations that don't or simply aren't able too (I can understand their point from a business perspective, but it doesn't change the fact that they're making the choice to spend more than the other corps)

I'm sorry - you've already lost me on several levels. Looks to me that all world-class corps put a lot of money into equipment (witness every one of them adding electronic instruments in 2009). Marketing skills are neither exclusive to nor guaranteed by G7 membership (i.e. Blue Stars, Blue Knights, Academy, Jersey Surf, etc.), and infrastructure....similar story.

And what does any of this have to do with their DCI pay scale? Apparently, the G7 already get more money, so your contention that they get the "same cut" is false. Moving forward, though, why should DCI pay a corps more for having infrastructure? If Blue Knights and Troopers do the same number of shows, clinics and other commitments for DCI, should BK be paid more simply for having more or better "infrastructure"?

[audiodb]

The funniest thing about these threads has been the people who normally cry about drum corps dying and DCI won't be around in 10 years if things keep going the way they are going are now the same people saying DCI is fine and there is no reason to make any changes.

I think the hyperbole and broad-brushing are funnier. Take your post, for example....

[jjeffeory]

Perhaps. But you're missing my point about the Blue Ocean. For example, Cirque evaluated the 3 ring circus (in it's different forms and venues) and re-invented it. It took away the animals, added uninterruped tempo, great acoustics, a little sex, eye-popping in your face gynastics and performers integrated into the crowd. The audience didn't feel part it, they were part of it. Now please don't make parallels between some of these innovations and what the G7 are proposing. You're going to see drop dead great shows from all them this year and by the way, your analysis of 1930 is just that...your analysis. But you did say, imo.

The whole problem with your Blue Ocean analogy is that DCI is NOT in a highly contested market, or Red Ocean. They've selectively killed off the other markets ( ie DCM, DCS, DCW, Garden State, VFW). Some of this was arguably necessary ( VFW), some of it was not (DCM). I'm not sure if you know the history... There is now only one other participant in their market. That would be DCA. Even that market is sufficiently different as to not see too much of an overlap.

What they want to do is get into a Red Ocean, ie the marching band world. That world is a highly contested market. It's not a new market. There are HS bands with hundred of circuits including BOA and Hoppy's USSBA. There are thousands of colleges bands, Southern Show Bands, community marching bands, etc to compete with. That is NOT a Blue Ocean, it is a Red Ocean. They're already half-way to a Blue Ocean FROM the marching band world. Their best bet is to create a "Bluer Ocean" by accentuating their distinct qualities from marching band and add in some of the good ideas of their current proposal.

[Cache_Money]

So the rest of the drum corps world is that weak to let one guy rule the roost? Or is Hop kidnapping Gibbs' family and holding them for ransom in a basement somewhere to strong arm him?

If he is truly that powerful, persuasive and self-involved, don't you think he would've gotten into politics by now?

Who says he hasn't?

[BRASSO]

The funniest thing about these threads has been the people who normally cry about drum corps dying and DCI won't be around in 10 years if things keep going the way they are going are now the same people saying DCI is fine and there is no reason to make any changes.

Oh sure... and the " same people " that think what the G-7 is doing is perhaps good change are the " same people", that don't quite grasp the fact that the " same people " that initiated this proposal are " the same people " that have brought the activity of Drum Corps to it's current precarious position as an activity with dwindling Corps, dwindling audiences, dwindling gate receipts, no live TV for Finals, etc..... and that the radical transformation undergone by these change agents have made the activity just hunky dory now, and we should just blindly follow their attempt at a brazen power grab for themselves after their previous dozen proposals have proven such a great" success" for " the sustainability of all the Corps "......... Ya, right. Think again.

Edited May 26, 2010 by BRASSO

[chaddyt]

Who says he hasn't?

Haha. I always thought Janet Napolitano had some masculine features...

[Chuckels]

Page 44 - "Touring Corps (AA) will perform Monday through Thursday and Saturday." Only the G7 would perform on Fridays/Sundays.

It still doesn't say it's going to be less shows if anything more shows and also help the (AA) corps on travel cost and give fans more options to see the top corps and if I read correctly the DCI or the other corps would get a portion of the split from the Friday and Sunday show. So the other corps would benefit from more rehearsal time, less travel budget and also a portion of money from a show they don't even have to perform in.