Official DCP G7 Proposal Discussion Thread

[Jeff Ream]

I can well imagine the tone of the slideshow given (a) the presenter and (b) his audience :-\

Why is it naive that the "approach" is bad but the "goal" is good? That's not naive it's realistic and not reactionary.

I agree with the proposal that DC is not gonna build their audience much if at all with the current approach. I agree that there are lot of ticket-buying folks in the fall that never show their faces in the summer. I agree that HS MB has replaced much of what DC used to be but that DCI operates as if its blind to this fact. I agree that there are flaws in the DCI operating model that need to change.

Voting out the bad and moving forward with the good is how things work in the real world. Sorry I'm so naive.

given that much of the crowd at local band shows in the fall is parents and family of kids on the field, so you really think the G7 idea is enough to get these people to go and see it?

I don't. with the tour as it's set up, most parents get to see their kids more than once or twice a season before finals at all. many of the parents at band shows I see are there to see their kids, and as soon as the show is over, they're gone. I don't see this G7 idea, knowing that ticket costs will be 10 times higher than band shows charge, being enough to get them there.

[bawker]

It might be win-win for some groups (mainly the top, and the bottom) but a lot of those in the middle want to be on national touring as well, as thats what their members want. Predict mass exodus of members from those groups to the G7 if that were to occur.

So, go back to the old "first tour, second tour" model . . .first tour goes out in perhaps a tri-state area or a little bit larger to shows, and those corps that can afford to do a second "national" tour.

So . . .let's take Blue Stars:

1st tour: shows in IL, WI, MI, IN, MN, regional championship.

2nd tour: expands out, west towards Denver, circles back through Texas and up through the South and then to the Mid-Atlantic, coming back to the Midwest for championships.

In short, not too much different than now for those groups that would have the wherewithal to do so. Madison, Blue Stars, BAC, Glassmen, etc become the new national touring face for DCI.

Open class corps could just do the first tour, get some exposure at a regional championship and then spend a few weeks to practice and save up for national championships if they didn't have enough money to make it through the second national tour.

[mobrien]

I'm still agnostic on the proposal, but there's a simple point of logic I'd like to point out.

For those who are going Tea Partier on the G7's butts, claiming that if they left DCI, they'd destroy the whole drum corps activity, aren't you necessarily agreeing with the G7 position - that these corps DO have an outsized economic impact on the whole activity these days?

Folks, they're only 7 corps - if they did leave, there would still be several dozen other corps who would be free to run the DCI operation however they saw fit. But by saying that if these 7 got their way, everyone else would be toast, you're implicitly agreeing with Hopkins and Gibbs; that the appeal of everyone else in the activity is minor in comparison to the big guys.

If the 7 (or 6) left DCI, there would still be a sizable number of corps out there, and they would likely find an increased level of interest from the heritage fans who aren't associated with any of the 6/7 corps. DCI would lose the economic revenue streams that the 6/7 bring to the balance sheet, but it would also clear the way for the remaining corps to have a level of control on the activity they haven't had in the last 20 or 30 years.

It's going to be hard for everyone to negotiate their way to a realistic and acceptable outcome if the facts of the matter aren't embraced without argument. These 7 are the headliners, and 5 of them HAVE been for literally decades. What can every other corps in the activity do to bring their level of fan excitement up to the level that these guys have been generating? Madison made some steps for this year (regardless of the actual competitive quality of the product, there WILL be interest in seeing them again). Troopers did the same thing last year on a smaller scale. But (not to call anyone out) what are we supposed to be looking forward to from Colts? Will Blue Stars be knocking off Cadets this year? Spirit, are you ready to take on Blue Devils? What did they all do to make themselves more interesting to the fan base and increase the overall excitement factor?

A healthy activity would be one in which any show that features 4 DCI Open Class corps is a must-see event, but most of the corps out there don't seem to be taking that seriously. It'd be nice if this served as notice that if they don't like the attitude coming from the top, that there's only one way to change what "the top" looks like.

Edited May 26, 2010 by mobrien

[GMichael1230]

I'm still agnostic on the proposal, but there's a simple point of logic I'd like to point out.

For those who are going Tea Partier on the G7's butts, claiming that if they left DCI, they'd destroy the whole drum corps activity, aren't you necessarily agreeing with the G7 position - that these corps DO have an outsized impact on the whole activity these days?

Folks, they're only 7 corps - if they did leave, there would still be several dozen other corps who would be free to run the DCI operation however they saw fit. But by saying that if these 7 got their way, everyone else would be toast, you're implicitly agreeing with Hopkins and Gibbs; that the appeal of everyone else in the activity is minor in comparison to the big guys.

If the 7 (or 6) left DCI, there would still be a sizable number of corps out there, and they would likely find an increased level of interest from the heritage fans who aren't associated with any of the 6/7 corps. DCI would lose the economic revenue streams that the 6/7 bring to the balance sheet, but it would also clear the way for the remaining corps to have a level of control on the activity they haven't had in the last 20 or 30 years.

It's going to be hard for everyone to negotiate their way to a realistic and acceptable outcome if the facts of the matter aren't embraced without argument. These 7 are the headliners, and 6 of them HAVE been for literally decades. What can every other corps in the activity do to bring their level of fan excitement up to the level that these guys have been generating? Madison made some steps for this year (regardless of the actual competitive quality of the product, there WILL be interest in seeing them again). Troopers did the same thing last year on a smaller scale. But (not to call anyone out) what are we supposed to be looking forward to from Colts? Will Blue Stars be knocking off Cadets this year? Spirit, are you ready to take on Blue Devils? What did they all do to make themselves interesting to the fan base?

A healthy activity would be one in which any show that features 4 DCI Open Class corps is a must-see event, but most of the corps out there don't seem to be taking that seriously. It'd be nice if this served as notice that if they don't like the attitude coming from the top, that there's only one way to change what "the top" looks like.

I agree....

G

[Jeff Ream]

The funniest thing about these threads has been the people who normally cry about drum corps dying and DCI won't be around in 10 years if things keep going the way they are going are now the same people saying DCI is fine and there is no reason to make any changes.

or some of us have said DCI has had issues, and it's the result of changes already made. careful with that paintbrush, it may splatter on you

[bawker]

Folks, they're only 7 corps - if they did leave, there would still be several dozen other corps who would be free to run the DCI operation however they saw fit.

Absolutely.

Anyone who thinks Bob Jacobs or any of the other guys left would be quaking in their boots would be sorely mistaken . . .those guys know how to run a tight ship, and do it well.

[jjeffeory]

I understand your reasoning. My reply is that if we see an exodus from ANY 7 DCI world class groups it would severely harm DCI. There aren't that many to begin with.

For example, if Glassmen, Blue Knights, Phantom, Blue Stars, Troopers, Colts, and Academy all left at the same time, it would be pretty bad for the junior activity as well.

I'm not sure how it would work out really.

I'm still agnostic on the proposal, but there's a simple point of logic I'd like to point out.

For those who are going Tea Partier on the G7's butts, claiming that if they left DCI, they'd destroy the whole drum corps activity, aren't you necessarily agreeing with the G7 position - that these corps DO have an outsized impact on the whole activity these days?

Folks, they're only 7 corps - if they did leave, there would still be several dozen other corps who would be free to run the DCI operation however they saw fit. But by saying that if these 7 got their way, everyone else would be toast, you're implicitly agreeing with Hopkins and Gibbs; that the appeal of everyone else in the activity is minor in comparison to the big guys.

If the 7 (or 6) left DCI, there would still be a sizable number of corps out there, and they would likely find an increased level of interest from the heritage fans who aren't associated with any of the 6/7 corps. DCI would lose the economic revenue streams that the 6/7 bring to the balance sheet, but it would also clear the way for the remaining corps to have a level of control on the activity they haven't had in the last 20 or 30 years.

It's going to be hard for everyone to negotiate their way to a realistic and acceptable outcome if the facts of the matter aren't embraced without argument. These 7 are the headliners, and 6 of them HAVE been for literally decades. What can every other corps in the activity do to bring their level of fan excitement up to the level that these guys have been generating? Madison made some steps for this year (regardless of the actual competitive quality of the product, there WILL be interest in seeing them again). Troopers did the same thing last year on a smaller scale. But (not to call anyone out) what are we supposed to be looking forward to from Colts? Will Blue Stars be knocking off Cadets this year? Spirit, are you ready to take on Blue Devils? What did they all do to make themselves interesting to the fan base?

A healthy activity would be one in which any show that features 4 DCI Open Class corps is a must-see event, but most of the corps out there don't seem to be taking that seriously. It'd be nice if this served as notice that if they don't like the attitude coming from the top, that there's only one way to change what "the top" looks like.

[JimF-LowBari]

Folks, they're only 7 corps - if they did leave, there would still be several dozen other corps who would be free to run the DCI operation however they saw fit.

We're at the point that losing one corps is not healthy. Losing 7 of the top 12 all at one shot is a large percentage anyway it's cut. Plus that's an entire competition/show lost each show night because of the decreased number of available corps. How would 20 or so less shows a season hit DCIs pocketbook. Not to mention possible less butts in the seats at regionals/finals week due to less corps.

Oh yeah, less total bodies on the field = less family/friends/alumni in the seats

Edited May 26, 2010 by JimF-LowBari

[Jeff Ream]

It still doesn't say it's going to be less shows if anything more shows and also help the (AA) corps on travel cost and give fans more options to see the top corps and if I read correctly the DCI or the other corps would get a portion of the split from the Friday and Sunday show. So the other corps would benefit from more rehearsal time, less travel budget and also a portion of money from a show they don't even have to perform in.

extra rehearsal only goes so far in balancing the books. you forget that they get less for being in fewer shows, as well as having to pay more for extended stay housing....they cant just turn around thursday night since they cant compete Friday, then go back out Saturday morning.

so after thursday, yes they get more rehearsal...and they still have to get from a to b, pay for housing and food and gas.

[soccerguy315]

Okay, so I'm a little confused. Yes, the G7 will have their shows on Fridays and Sundays, but where does that bar the other corps in the DCI circuit from having shows? Since these G7 shows aren't even DCI sanctioned, DCI should be more or less free to have other shows on those nights. It's been said repeatedly on here that the G7 are not what "put butts in seats," so not having them at a show shouldn't hurt attendance for the non-G7 corps. So, tell me what I'm missing.

1. the proposal says that non Greedy7 corps will perform Monday-Thursday, and Saturday.

2. even if there were shows, if you market a product as "all the best X will be at location A" and "some crappy X will be at location B"... how many people are you going to attract to location B? X can be anything you want... drum corps... grapefruits... horses... doesn't matter. Result is the same.