BRASSO Posted June 22, 2010 Share Posted June 22, 2010 (edited) You have a point, but I think that is a bit of an exaggeration. Early season Phantom scores last year were a complete anomaly as the rest of the corps maintained their general relative scoring spreads throughout the season. And Phantom's downfall towards the end of the season was not entirely in the colorguard caption...... the other judges scored them much lower as well. I think their weird situation had more to do with the massive drill re-writes and lack of cleaning time before the end of the season. I do think you have a valid point Tez, in that Phantom's issues were more than just the Guard. That said, not having the Guard evaluated in a format in June that they would have in August hurt Phantom. I believe that had a full judging panel been in existence in June, then Phantom MIGHT have had more time to take corrective action. Maybe not... but we really don't know. Not having in place a full judging panel... something we'll se later in the season.... doesn't help anyone in my opinion. Not the Corps.. not the staff... not the fans. Edited June 22, 2010 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaos001 Posted June 22, 2010 Share Posted June 22, 2010 I do think you have a valid point Tez, in that Phantom's issues were more than just the Guard. That said, not having the Guard evaluated in a format in June that they would have in August hurt Phantom. I believe that had a full judging panel been in existence in June, then Phantom MIGHT have had more time to take corrective action. Maybe not... but we really don't know. Not having in place a full judging panel... something we'll se later in the season.... doesn't help anyone in my opinion. Not the Corps.. not the staff... not the fans. well, when the head of the design staff says, "we really didn't know what direction to take to put this show on the field," kind of doomed it from the start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corpsband Posted June 22, 2010 Share Posted June 22, 2010 I do think you have a valid point Tez, in that Phantom's issues were more than just the Guard. That said, not having the Guard evaluated in a format in June that they would have in August hurt Phantom. I believe that had a full judging panel been in existence in June, then Phantom MIGHT have had more time to take corrective action. Maybe not... but we really don't know. Not having in place a full judging panel... something we'll se later in the season.... doesn't help anyone in my opinion. Not the Corps.. not the staff... not the fans. I don't think having guard caption tapes would have made much on an impact on the season. There were design issues (evidenced by re-writes) that would properly be on other tapes anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted June 22, 2010 Share Posted June 22, 2010 (edited) Why bother scoring early season shows ?A) Fans like competition B) Corps like competition C) Corps get experience performing the show D) Fans see shows evolve (assuming they get to later season shows) E) Corps get valuable feedback from judges As for your point about not all captions getting feedback: balderdash :) Corps staff don't need to hear about dirt early season because the know all about what's dirty and what's not. They need to find out what's working (and how well it works) or what's not working (and why not). While I'm sure everyone would prefer full panels, DCI is economizing. And the judges who *are* missing are not critical to big picture stuff. Can you imagine the NBA, MLB, College Football, World Cup Soccer Prelim rounds, NHL, NFL, etc going with half a ref or umpire panel because of " economizing " ?.... and having fans of these sports say...." it's ok.. we don't need to know what's working and what's not".... "teams like compettion "....." fans like competition "...the refs, umps, will get it right later in the season when the games mean more and we'll have a full crew ".... we're fine with this.." We easy. Whatever is decided ". Not in your life. Edited June 22, 2010 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted June 22, 2010 Share Posted June 22, 2010 (edited) I don't think having guard caption tapes would have made much on an impact on the season. There were design issues (evidenced by re-writes) that would properly be on other tapes anyway. Those early season tapes were not done by Guard Judges. They are done by visual design judges. It's by no means the same feedback. A Guard judge looks at Guard performace in a completely different light than does a vsual design judge. A Guard judge also does considerable feedback t oa Corps in OTHER than proper equipment utilization, proper flag performance and so forth. If a guard judge is not involved in early season judging and feedback ( they are not ) the early judged competition is valuable to a Corps in only a limited fashion... mostly design.. Not having a brass judge available in early shows, also is not conducive to proper feedback either. And as a result, the scores and placements that are received in the early season are unrepresentative of much of anyrthing at all... other than general comments about the show theme, design and so forth. Given this, DCI should just make these early season shows, exhibitions only, imo.... or better yet... find the frickin money to get a full panel of judges and " make it real ". Edited June 22, 2010 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaos001 Posted June 22, 2010 Share Posted June 22, 2010 Can you imagine the NBA, MLB, College Football, World Cup Soccer Prelim rounds, NHL, NFL, etc going with half a ref or umpire panel because of " economizing " ?.... and having fans of these sports say...." it's ok.. we don't need to know what's working and what's not".... "teams like compettion "....." fans like competition "...the refs, umps, will get it right later in the season when the games mean more and we'll have a full crew ".... we're fine with this.." We easy. Whatever is decided ". Not in your life. apparently some of the matches have been refereed with only half a brain... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corpsband Posted June 22, 2010 Share Posted June 22, 2010 Can you imagine the NBA, MLB, College Football, World Cup Soccer Prelim rounds, NHL, NFL, etc going with half a ref or umpire panel because of " economizing " ?.... and having fans of these sports say...." it's ok.. we don't need to know what's working and what's not".... "teams like compettion "....." fans like competition "...the refs, umps, will get it right later in the season when the games mean more and we'll have a full crew ".... we're fine with this.." We easy. Whatever is decided ". Not in your life. Sport analogies are just a big fail. Judging (and by extension competition) in drum corps is a completely different animal than any other sport. Try making your arguments without analogies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaos001 Posted June 22, 2010 Share Posted June 22, 2010 recaps would be nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tez Posted June 22, 2010 Share Posted June 22, 2010 I do think you have a valid point Tez, in that Phantom's issues were more than just the Guard. That said, not having the Guard evaluated in a format in June that they would have in August hurt Phantom. I believe that had a full judging panel been in existence in June, then Phantom MIGHT have had more time to take corrective action. Maybe not... but we really don't know. Not having in place a full judging panel... something we'll se later in the season.... doesn't help anyone in my opinion. Not the Corps.. not the staff... not the fans. Well, the purpose of not having full panels (saving DCI more money) is supposed to indirectly help everyone, right? (unless you are the judge not working that night ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted June 22, 2010 Share Posted June 22, 2010 recaps would be nice. it's WV man. give em a chance to find a good interweb hookup. trust me, I've been there. Once you leave Charleston, you're looking at jeff Foxworthy jokes for miles in every direction Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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