Incomplete Shows

[rut-roh]

Then, we had the Cavaliers purposely leaving 2-3 minutes of drill out for early-season shows, and being rewarded for it.

Really?? Their scores were HIGHER than when they actually added the drill? Wow. Sweet!

[84BDsop]

Apparently you missed the posts where folks reported they skip nearby shows early in the season because of incomplete shows.

And YOU missed the point-- stated time and again by myself and others -- that there ARE no late season shows out here on the West coast....all we HAVE are early season.

The only time we're in a position to see BD and SCV in SoCal in competition? Last weekend...2 shows for BD, 3 for SCV....period, stop, end of discussion (I don't count Americafest at the Rose Bowl, since that was an exhibition and the majority of people in the stands don't care...they're too busy trying to get the Wave past the drum corps section of the stands).

Contrast that with Cadets who have 3 shows in PA....first show of their season in Allentown, then 2 in AUGUST in West Chester and Allentown. A Cadet fan in PA could easily skip the first Allentown, knowing he'd have mroe chances close to the end of the season to see them.

Same for Boston (different shows, but closer together than Stanford and Pasadena), Crown, and Cavies.

With the exception of 2007, we on the West coast DID....NOT...AND...DO...NOT...HAVE...THIS...OPTION.

How many times does it have to be said? The West has been screwed out of completed and/or polished programs EVERY year except 04 and 07...period.

Edited July 7, 2010 by 84BDsop

[corpsband]

And YOU missed the point-- stated time and again by myself and others -- that there ARE no late season shows out here on the West coast....all we HAVE are early season.

This does indeed suck. But penalties for incomplete shows isn't going to fix it.

[84BDsop]

This does indeed suck. But penalties for incomplete shows isn't going to fix it.

I;m not proposing that....I said waaaay earlier that I didn't agree with TW's proposal....i just get tired of people ignoring the realities of seeing a show out here.

[TrainWreck]

I;m not proposing that....I said waaaay earlier that I didn't agree with TW's proposal....i just get tired of people ignoring the realities of seeing a show out here.

My proposal was intentionally meant to be extreme. Makes people talk about it (look how many pages and views).

Yes, there would be ramifications if my proposal were implemented. However, I bet that you would see full shows at the start of the season......

[BozzlyB]

This does indeed suck. But penalties for incomplete shows isn't going to fix it.

Gads I just can't stay away from this thread.

You know this for sure do you? I disagree, I think it WILL fix it. Drum corps regardless of point in the season have always striven to avoid scoring penalties at all costs. I don't by the obstacles/difficulty argument for reasons I have voiced several times. Corps showing up with incomplete shows are doing it because they can. Period. Slap a timing penalty on it and you will see it become a rarity, like it should be, instead of somthing that happens every spring, and no, it will not result in "filler". You say it will have no impact either way? Then what's to be afraid of?

[skajerk]

What good would penalizing a corps at the start of the season do? Absolutely nothing! What, you lose a show or drop a placement because your show wasn't finished in June but you end up winning in August with a complete show? I'd take those odds!

[skajerk]

I have yet to see one single person in this thread provide an answer to the following question that I've presented numerous times.

What is wrong with enforcing all of the rules, all of the time. How will this negatively affect the activity?

(and lets try for something a little more creative and accurate than the "filler" argument, which I'm sure every corps that came out with a full length show this year would take serious offense to)

And I have yet see an answer this question that has been asked quite a bit throughout this thread:

Who is being inconsistently judged? Are some corps getting a break when it comes to incomplete shows while others are not getting the same break for their incomplete shows?

I'm mean, surely the pro-penalty side isn't saying that BD benefited or that BK, Troopers, Mandarins or PC were penalized by SCV having a short show? Then again, maybe you are.

Edited July 7, 2010 by skajerk

[oldskl3rings]

What good would penalizing a corps at the start of the season do? Absolutely nothing! What, you lose a show or drop a placement because your show wasn't finished in June but you end up winning in August with a complete show? I'd take those odds!

Simple! Make the penalties severe, say 3 points for every 30 seconds a corps is under the minimum. All scores (including penalties) would be used to determine a corps seeding for the first regional. It may not prevent a corps from winning it all in August, but it would make the process more difficult.

[TrumpetJ]

This kind of apathy is astonishing to me. Consistency in judging should be one of the goals of any competitive activity. Still no one answering how enforcing the timing rule will negatively affect the activity.

Right. Apathy. Because it doesn't bother corps that they didn't put out the remaining product and imploding for the sake of a few grumps. Like other people have said, it's not that they are doing to toy with you, they are doing it because the finished product might not be comfortably under the members feet.

By dumbing down their shows. Not everybody wants to see that.

Seconded. If I want to see super watered down corps shows, I'll watch a BOA super regional start to finish, and that is towards the top of my "most boring things ever" list.

I believe they'd appreciate being differentiated for their extra content.

Extra content does not equal better show. It's a deceiving score and placement they will receive shortly before eating the dust of that incomplete show they beat on a technicality.

Well i would consider a show complete if the length of the show fell within the min/max range allotted for shows in the rules. I believe that is 10-11.5 minutes. others have said it is 9.5-11 minutes but I think that is wrong since the maximum is definately 11.5 minutes. It used to be 11.5-13 minutes back in the 70's and early 80s. Guard work missing and drill incomplete during this time is not good, but as long as they meet the minimum time requirement I have no problem with the other stuff not quite being ready.

I've been hearing discussion of this time limit the entire thread. Anyone who owns the 2009 championship CD's, go look at the total time of Spirit's recording from semis. 10 minutes 39 seconds. That includes the not scored preshow and audience applause at the end, making it quite possible that the actual judged portion of the show is under 9.5 minutes. You think they would have gone an ENTIRE SEASON WILLINGLY ACCEPTING A TIME PENALTY? Not intended to be a bash, I just have a hard time believing there is a minimum time limit.

However, I bet that you would see full shows at the start of the season......

And they would be rushed on the field. They would probably suck too. Then there would be 5,000 threads on this site saying "Aren't these the best of the best? DRUM CORPS IS DEAD!!!!!!!".

Edited July 7, 2010 by UTtrumpetdude