Why Blue Devils Win

[Matt_S]

you'd lose...it's tough to beat him in an argument

it has nothing to do with like or not like or appreciate or notr appreciate. he nails it on the head when it comes to displaying simultaneous repsonsibilities. they do the bare minimum, yet get max credit. this is where I think most people get mad and say the shows are easy.

are they? no. but rarely do they have thick musical passages while moving ( as opposed to many other corps that do), and even sustained loud passages arent on the fly...sure it's tough to add in body under them, but it's tougher to move during them.

this is why i think you have the demand argument. yes they have music demand and they have visual demand...but rarely do you have both.

there i think I just summed up the whole demand debate.

they have it in both areas, but not at the same time like others.

Meh. This is exactly the same argument I heard when DCP first started and the Cavaliers were winning. In fact, since you only use pronouns throughout it doesn't even take much imagination to pretend that this post was written eight years ago. It's all talking points, as far as I'm concerned. There's been a lot of tearing down on these boards since the weekend's scores were announced. It's discouraging to see so many people became so enraged over something so petty. It's also discouraging to see so many people try to rationalize their subjective dislike of a show into objective reasons why they feel the show shouldn't be winning. If you think the Blue Devils lack the simultaneous demand of other corps, name those other corps. Give me examples. Build your case. Right now, all I've been reading is complaining, and very little actual thought.

[Team_Hawk]

While I don't give two moment's thought to whatever kind of music [/sarcasm] "Grand Master..." or "Tupac" play, this sentence hit the nail on the head. But, IMO, you're right on the first part and dead wrong on the second.

If I wanted to "experience" whatever you call it that "Tupac et al" does, I'd buy a ticket to that.

Instead I want to see drum corps, and I will fight it being "deconstructed" tooth and nail.

You're missing the point... the Tupac comment was merely a basic example to illusrate my point. As artforms evolve they tend to become more abstract. Think about how literature has evolved from Shakespeare to the like of Franz Kafka. Or how jazz music evolved from classical orchestras... this type of transformation takes place in all art forms. While rap music has nothing to do with my point, it serves as a comparitive device.

I also want to expand my though process to say that it has nothing to do with "better." You might prefer the classic rock of the Beatles, Rolling Stones, Zeppelin, etc. over more contemporary music by say the Killers, or Kings of Leon. While the old stuff is most appealing to a hard core rock and rol enthusiast, the new stuff is really good too. I wish some old school folks could open their minds up to the new... it does not have to be "better" than the drum corps you know and love because it is very different...accept it for what it is and appreciate the value in it.

I admit, this year BD is a visual spectacle first and foremost and the music serves as a backdrop to the visual package... but it is really effing cool!

[BRASSO]

. I wish some old school folks could open their minds up to the new... it does not have to be "better" than the drum corps you know and love because it is very different...accept it for what it is and appreciate the value in it.

I admit, this year BD is a visual spectacle first and foremost and the music serves as a backdrop to the visual package... but it is really effing cool!

If you think that the criticism of the Blue Devils show this year is coming principally from the " old school folks"...... think again.

It's not. It cuts across all demographic age groups from what I'm observing.

[Team_Hawk]

If you think that the criticism of the Blue Devils show this year is coming principally from the " old school folks"...... think again.

It's not. It cuts across all demographic age groups from what I'm observing.

I am sure you are right... for every person who like BD there will be another who hates them and so the world remains in constant balance haha

I am sure a lot of people in Devnver cheered loudly for BD, while some booed, and others may have refrained from clapping or making any sound all together.

Unless BD goes 10 years without winning they will never be the fan favorite. We believe in the American Dream, we want the underdog to win... that Cinderalla story. Unless you are a die-hard Yankee fan are you hoping to see them win another World Series? Unless you are a Laker fan do you root for LA to win the NBA finals most of the time?

Die-hard BD fans young and old will continue to support them vehemently, and until someone knocks them off the top of the mountain (which Cavies did for a while) others will either dislike them winning or feel completely indifferent about it. Human nature desires the spontaneous.

[bawker]

As artforms evolve they tend to become more abstract.

. . .drum corps is not an individual art form, it's a pastiche of other art forms . . . other than a few original shows from Suncoast Sound and the Cavaliers, there's little to nothing "new" to speak of that's ever been created in the idiom

Regarding popular music, the activity morphed in the late 70's to closely trend against some of the popular culture and themes of the day. . . "In the Stone", "Star Wars", etc. . . .far from where we are today; so, if anything, what we see now is even less of an "abstract".

Blue Devils play Kenton. Crown plays classical composers. Cadets play classical composers. . . .and so forth.

Interesting, yes. A new revelation, no.

Drum corps, as it has progressed along, is now exactly reverse of what you claim: an activity that exists as a niche of a niche, trying to tie itself to education dollars from MENC and NAMM to survive.

It's going to be as middle of the road and unobtrusive to the high-school-wind-ensemble-college-band-program melange that makes up its repertoires and members now as possible (see: Imogen Heap now as a safe, iTunes approved rep choice the kids and parents can all like, after the 2nd album was out for two years. Ooh, daring, guys! Can we play Regina Spektor, too? LOL. )

It now trades in Americana, upper-middle-class kids and positive self image to ply its trade at its highest levels.

Nothing wrong with that, but it's not going to turn the world on its ear, either.

Risks grow an activity when they push it beyond itself and its limits. Nothing any corps has done for a number of years (including BD) can claim that; the Cadets drum speak, Phantoms Spartacus retread, Blue Devils wink-n-nod at WGI with the mirrors: we've seen it all before.

The challenges are there, and we all supposedly have more tools to us to express them: conventions with section numbers, pacing and even show design itself are ripe with possibilities to make something at least a little different, if not something wholly unique.

We've got a long way to go to reinvent the wheel yet.

[audiodb]

It is hard to take the rest of your post seriously when you start it like this. Whatever you think of the beginning and end of the show, are you saying there are only two measures of melody in the entire ballad portion of the show? I am trying to decide if you actually watched the whole show, or if you just wrote all of this up before you went and just pressed "send" this morning...

There are fragments of Laura that may reach or exceed two measures, but they did not strike me as "coherent" upon first impression. I think they were all solo(s), rather than the full-hornline treatment of La Suerte we can bask in for eight whole beats early in the show.

[audiodb]

If you think the Blue Devils lack the simultaneous demand of other corps, name those other corps. Give me examples. Build your case. Right now, all I've been reading is complaining, and very little actual thought.

If only I had the time to perform this analysis for you....but off the top of my head, certainly Cadets, Phantom Regiment and Blue Stars present the kind of simultaneous demand on brass players that I am thinking of. Also at issue is sustained demand, something the Carolina Crown and Phantom Regiment hornlines specialize in....at the Denver show, Blue Knights would be your finer example of that.

[Michael Boo]

I suspect the whole issue of "what is good design" can be boiled down to thus: If you like a show, even if the judges score it low, it is "good design." If you don't like a show, even if the judges score it high, it is "bad design." If it's intriguing to us and keeps our attention, the judges' opinions won't matter to our personal enjoyment of the design. If it bores us or if we think the design is substandard, we'll think the judges are on something.

[Plan9]

I am sure you are right... for every person who like BD there will be another who hates them and so the world remains in constant balance haha

I am sure a lot of people in Devnver cheered loudly for BD, while some booed, and others may have refrained from clapping or making any sound all together.

Unless BD goes 10 years without winning they will never be the fan favorite. We believe in the American Dream, we want the underdog to win... that Cinderalla story. Unless you are a die-hard Yankee fan are you hoping to see them win another World Series? Unless you are a Laker fan do you root for LA to win the NBA finals most of the time?

Die-hard BD fans young and old will continue to support them vehemently, and until someone knocks them off the top of the mountain (which Cavies did for a while) others will either dislike them winning or feel completely indifferent about it. Human nature desires the spontaneous.

This pretty much says it all. It's never about what BD actually has on the field...if their exact show was being performed (to the same level) by Spirit, they would be in roughly the same spot...only without the insults! (CI aside).

[Team_Hawk]

. . .drum corps is not an individual art form, it's a pastiche of other art forms . . . other than a few original shows from Suncoast Sound and the Cavaliers, there's little to nothing "new" to speak of that's ever been created in the idiom

Regarding popular music, the activity morphed in the late 70's to closely trend against some of the popular culture and themes of the day. . . "In the Stone", "Star Wars", etc. . . .far from where we are today; so, if anything, what we see now is even less of an "abstract".

Blue Devils play Kenton. Crown plays classical composers. Cadets play classical composers. . . .and so forth.

Interesting, yes. A new revelation, no.

Drum corps, as it has progressed along, is now exactly reverse of what you claim: an activity that exists as a niche of a niche, trying to tie itself to education dollars from MENC and NAMM to survive.

It's going to be as middle of the road and unobtrusive to the high-school-wind-ensemble-college-band-program melange that makes up its repertoires and members now as possible (see: Imogen Heap now as a safe, iTunes approved rep choice the kids and parents can all like, after the 2nd album was out for two years. Ooh, daring, guys! Can we play Regina Spektor, too? LOL. )

It now trades in Americana, upper-middle-class kids and positive self image to ply its trade at its highest levels.

Nothing wrong with that, but it's not going to turn the world on its ear, either.

Risks grow an activity when they push it beyond itself and its limits. Nothing any corps has done for a number of years (including BD) can claim that; the Cadets drum speak, Phantoms Spartacus retread, Blue Devils wink-n-nod at WGI with the mirrors: we've seen it all before.

The challenges are there, and we all supposedly have more tools to us to express them: conventions with section numbers, pacing and even show design itself are ripe with possibilities to make something at least a little different, if not something wholly unique.

We've got a long way to go to reinvent the wheel yet.

LOVE your assessment... deconstructing deconstruction!

As the activity attempts to become "more innovative/original" it manages to become less innovative, less original.