Why Blue Devils Win

[Lance]

I think I rambled on a bit with my answer above. Oops.

I meant to say, in so many words, that people are selfish in their own subjective ideas of what creates that "connection". . .and that's why people want to seemingly change BD (or Glassmen, or Spirit, or Academy, etc) to something to more closely aligns with what has created those emotional/cerebral/aesthetic pathways before for them.

I don't think it's always wanting a step backwards to older shows or standards (as you indicate) so much as it might be a "sidestep" to other avenues of artistic expression:

Example: 2006 was very direct in its presentation: "Here's the Godfather." The main theme was presented enough times to pretty much grab anyone who is a causal fan of film or music (or of pop culture, really) to supplement the rest of the show that deviated from that main theme somewhat.

Result: pretty much everyone was a fan of the show that year.

The Cavaliers also did a good job with this sort of thing in 2004 . . .the Bond theme is easy to find . . . the rest of the source material might not be familiar enough to the viewer . . .but you stay engaged because it's easy for anyone from six to eighty-six to get: 007.

Result: everyone digs the show, and it even wins a championship.

I don't mean that BD doesn't do that this year. . .but the framing device they use: "La Suerte", is a little shaky when it comes to getting that buy-in from the average fan. It assumes that you know the Kenton standard as the front piece and the end cap, and then asks you to take a ride through stuff even Kenton thought was hard to "get".

As far as looking forward: there are tons of places BD can go and break new ground, take the "fans" along and still remain a deadly competitor . . . I'd suggest something like an anime show next year (someone listen to the "Macross Plus" soundtrack and tell me there's not a BD show there, especially with electronics legal now).

There's buy in from a younger demographic, the visual possibilities are endless . . .and people like Yoko Kanno write amazing jazz that Downey and Glyde could have a ton of fun with.

I dunno. Or maybe an anime show would fall on its face.

I am familiar with 1991 BD and Kenton in general, so I have an "in" to this years show . . .but I don't discount those that don't get BD lately and do want a change. It's selfishness for all of us mostly, but it comes from a good place . . .people who love our activity that just like to enjoy the ride and want another show that fits into their own subjective comfort level.

COMPREHENSIVE!

[saxfreq1128]

Barenaked Ladies are one of my favorite bands ever. Their latest album is not my cup of tea. Am I going to call them up and say, "Hey! This album is crap! Go back to your older style!" Nope.

Well SOMEONE ought to. It sucked.

[FHdork]

<For people who don't care for BD's music this year, I think there's a chance they'll be happy with what happens to BD with music ge scores this year. It's looking pretty vulnerable compared to all of their other captions.>

And, imo, that is exactly the caption that should reward...or punish...chance taking and pandering. It's been a common sight to see caption rankings similar...if not identical...to a corps final ranking. I believe reality is more likely when caption scores are bouncing around a bit more -

And if Music GE is the only place BD is vulnerable...the other top 3 or 4 corps should be polishing like crazy, because BD always wants to win - and they perform their 'donkeys' off the last week of the season -

[skewerz]

Again, it's pure conjecture that, 1) the audience doesn't connect to this show & 2) it isn't extremely entertaining. For many, many of us (including many on these threads) this is a killer show that is a joy to watch and hear. And my guess is that the judges agree. No manner of the few that wish to call it nails on a chaulk board on DCP will make it so. As they say on Coffee Talk..."talk amongst yourselves", but it won't change the facts.

And while I'm at it, it's insulting to keep saying that the only reason BD is on top is because they perform the best. Which says to me, "your show sucks, but boy to you do it perfectly." What a pile!

Brasso, it's not a requirement to like BD's production, but to catagorically declare it un-fan friendly is a figment of your own notion. And in many cases (not necessarily yours), a mechanism to cope with the results.

sure, it's conjecture, but it's fairly logically derived conjecture.

1. The audience doesn't connect with the show...I don't know if the audience isn't "connecting" or that the audience just flat out doesn't appreciate the selections being played. I think it's the latter. The rabidly devout BD fans espouse that if you don't like this years show, you just don't get it. That's just crap. We get it...we just don't enjoy it...and if you have to "get" it to enjoy it, it's designed wrong anyway.

2. It is extremely entertaining, if your basis of drum corps enjoyment comes from marching and visuals. And while there are a lot of drum corps fans that just hang for that visually magnificent performance, there are a LOT more that just hang for that musically magnificent performance. I've said it before...have a contest where there is just marching and vis, with no music, and see how many pay to watch. Now, have a contest where it's a standstill arc, with just music, and see how many pay to hear.

3. Of course the judges agree...BD keeps winning...not that hard to figure out. Judges saying BD is the best doesn't mean the crowd has to enjoy their performance.

4. BD IS on top because they perform the best...that's the basis of the judging sheets (well, there's some argument about vis and emotion)

5. It's not completely fan un-friendly, but it's a lot fan un-friendly, whether you want to admit it or not.

When you see a cirque show or some other visual extravaganza...do you really need a meaning?? Honestly??

Cirque is about visual extravaganza with some back up music. Drum corps is about music extravaganza with some back up visual. Cirque would be amazing without the music...BD without music would not...and that's where a lot of the animus is coming from this year.

Through the 80's and 90's, BD was one of my favorite corps. I'm not a BD hater. I'm a hater of "you just don't get it". I'm a hater of shows that even Jeff deMello says "It's just that Kenton has a certain style that many people couldn't grok." He knows many people aren't going to enjoy the music.

BD didn't start this mess. The Cavaliers and judges did. When they started making shows that were built around visual instead of music, and the judges rewarded them for it, it started warping how shows were created. How that affects me is thus...the Cavaliers and BD have shows based on vis..and they win. The winner sets the tone of how the followers will follow. If the other corps want to win (and I'd assume they do), they will start mimic'ing what wins...which is vis, with (imo) boring music. SCV and BD seem to be the closest to this style this year, yet their music is more "accessible" (again, imo).

(here comes the me me me part)

I want music. I want sweeping, emotional musical melodies...I want volume from major chords that makes your eyes open..followed by a crisp, ringing cut-off. Guards that can dance is fine, but I also want guards that can roll some unison rifles, and do simultaneous throws and catches. I enjoy a great marching move...cross to cross was insane...cavies sine wave was coolness...folding boxes, dissolving fronts, and z pulls, and all their derivative moves are awesome. Peanut rolls are kinda stupid, but that's just me.

I want music to be more important than vis...and so do many other people....and that's where the BD angst comes from.

Edited July 16, 2010 by skewerz

[Plan9]

sure, it's conjecture, but it's fairly logically derived conjecture.

1. The audience doesn't connect with the show...I don't know if the audience isn't "connecting" or that the audience just flat out doesn't appreciate the selections being played. I think it's the latter. The rabidly devout BD fans espouse that if you don't like this years show, you just don't get it. That's just crap. We get it...we just don't enjoy it...and if you have to "get" it to enjoy it, it's designed wrong anyway.

2. It is extremely entertaining, if your basis of drum corps enjoyment comes from marching and visuals. And while there are a lot of drum corps fans that just hang for that visually magnificent performance, there are a LOT more that just hang for that musically magnificent performance. I've said it before...have a contest where there is just marching and vis, with no music, and see how many pay to watch. Now, have a contest where it's a standstill arc, with just music, and see how many pay to hear.

3. Of course the judges agree...BD keeps winning...not that hard to figure out. Judges saying BD is the best doesn't mean the crowd has to enjoy their performance.

4. BD IS on top because they perform the best...that's the basis of the judging sheets (well, there's some argument about vis and emotion)

5. It's not completely fan un-friendly, but it's a lot fan un-friendly, whether you want to admit it or not.

Cirque is about visual extravaganza with some back up music. Drum corps is about music extravaganza with some back up visual. Cirque would be amazing without the music...BD without music would not...and that's where a lot of the animus is coming from this year.

Through the 80's and 90's, BD was one of my favorite corps. I'm not a BD hater. I'm a hater of "you just don't get it". I'm a hater of shows that even Jeff deMello says "It's just that Kenton has a certain style that many people couldn't grok." He knows many people aren't going to enjoy the music.

BD didn't start this mess. The Cavaliers and judges did. When they started making shows that were built around visual instead of music, and the judges rewarded them for it, it started warping how shows were created. How that affects me is thus...the Cavaliers and BD have shows based on vis..and they win. The winner sets the tone of how the followers will follow. If the other corps want to win (and I'd assume they do), they will start mimic'ing what wins...which is vis, with (imo) boring music. SCV and BD seem to be the closest to this style this year, yet their music is more "accessible" (again, imo).

(here comes the me me me part)

I want music. I want sweeping, emotional musical melodies...I want volume from major chords that makes your eyes open..followed by a crisp, ringing cut-off. Guards that can dance is fine, but I also want guards that can roll some unison rifles, and do simultaneous throws and catches. I enjoy a great marching move...cross to cross was insane...cavies sine wave was coolness...folding boxes, dissolving fronts, and z pulls, and all their derivative moves are awesome. Peanut rolls are kinda stupid, but that's just me.

I want music to be more important than vis...and so do many other people....and that's where the BD angst comes from.

Again, who's "we", who's "the crowd"? If I were to say that most people find Crown's show undynamic and hard to follow, good music but no real clear theme for the show, it begins and ends and no one really knows what it's about"...does that make it so? What you are saying is one person's opinion and coming on DCP with a dozen other posters claiming your claim does not speak for "the crowd"...I don't speak for the crowd and you don't speak for the crowd. Now if you were to say "I don't find BD's music assessible" that is a perfectly tangible and measured notion..afterall it's yours. You descriptions of what you like are well thoughtout and understandable...but you don't speak for everyone. And for record, just because someone doesn't agree with you about BD, doesn't make them rabid fans....just fans with different taste. That is the only point I've tried to make in this thread. Some like different forms of jazz, others have no patience for it. Just like, some love classical music, and other have no patience for it.

For three years now, the same several DCPer's find flaws in BD's show and they gather around them like it's a campfire. Then some of us on the other side speak up and you act as if we're blind or worse. There were many of that same group that spoke out against the middle section of BD's show last year, calling it honking horns, dull and without form, then some of the same ones say in the throws of trying to make their point, "You know, I liked their show last year, but this year........"

Ultimately I'm not about to change your mind and you can't change mine...but in an effort to prove our point, neither of us speaks for the crowd.

Edited July 17, 2010 by Plan9

[FHdork]

<The winner sets the tone of how the followers will follow. If the other corps want to win (and I'd assume they do), they will start mimic'ing what wins...which is vis, with (imo) boring music.>

Lotta truth in that. Good thing most World Class corps DON'T do this (they understand that: either they can't play that game...or they believe the judging mood will swing their way) - they choose to go a different direction (Cadets and Bluecoats this season...) and hope for the best. Others - the "we KNOW we won't win" folks - well, hopefully they just create entertainment. Many of the last ten seasons have me enjoying a race for finals - or even semi finals - more than the race for the top.

And for what it's worth: I too find Crown's show VERY well, played...and NOT very well designed.

[WestCoaster]

...cavies sine wave was coolness...Peanut rolls are kinda stupid, but that's just me.

What are these?

[skewerz]

What are these?

the peanut roll is a junior high football drill...3 guys standing in a line...middle guy rolls toward guy on right...guy on right jumps middle guy and rolls towards guy on left, etc....

[MikeD]

so anyone that doesn't feel like you is wrong. how interesting

IMO they are wrong, just as it's just your opinion the other way. No more and no less.

[MikeD]

So you contend that corps are writing shows where they *don't* want the audience to applaud at the end of a performance? Please show me one example on the fan network where a show was designed to prevent an audience from showing their appreciation at the end of the performance with applause.

Say what? Where did I say that? I said corps designers strive for all sorts of reactions in creating their shows.