2000 - 2010 , what have we learned?

[MikeD]

How can an organization based on fraternal and brotherly cooperation for the success of all organizations claim NO FAULT at the death of 1/3 of the activity in 10 years when they are the ones rewriting the rules that directly affect the health and longevity of their brother and sister organizations?

128 to 135 to 150 = death for the have-not's

ran at least 5 years without letting OC corps mix with WC shows = death

no regional circuits to foster growth and lower touring budgets = death

Addition of A&E expenses on lower budget/smaller corps = death (both financially and competitively)

Removal of top 25 profit sharing / disallowing Open class to compete with WC at Quarterfinals = DEATH

Every rule change and action of the DCI BoD since 2000 has been to the detriment of the activity itself ...... of course the big dogs flourished ... but not the little guy. Every response you've given Mike, has show a mindset of Elitism .................. I just don't understand you Sir.

Not very many of those cut from a top World class corps move 'down then line'...it's been one of the problems for years....posted many times here. Moving up to 150 members means more will march in drum corps.

I have always seen OC corps at WC shows I have attended.

As stated, the failure of regional circuits is not DCI's fault.

If the cost of an amp pushes a corps to fail, they had larger issues than A&E, financially. Those are not big ticket items.

The actions of DCI have improved drum corps. It's up to each corps to provide a stable and financially secure foundation in order to participate.

I am hardly 'elitist'...I like all drum corps big and small. My teaching and judging background was in the Garden State Circuit, made up of small corps...I saw lots of them come and go through the 70's and into the 80's.

[MikeD]

Yes, DCI killed DCM. There was nothing shady about it. DCI convinced certain corps that it could bring them bigger audiences and more revenue, this corps accepted DCI's offer and proceeded with the dismantlement of DCM. We forget that circuits like DCI and DCM are businesses that are/were in competition with one another. DCI simply out-competed DCM and the other regional circuits. From a business standpoint, there's nothing wrong with what DCI did. Now it was a cold-hearted move that resulted in the deaths of several corps. You can dance around that fact all you want, but it won't go away. From the standpoint of the health of the activity as a whole, it was a disaster, but remember that DCI is not concerned with promoting interests of the activity as a whole, but only with promoting its own interests (and DCM and the other defunct circuits were little different).

Even your own spin still shows that DCM failed to provide the competitive experience at the level some of the corps desired, so the left. If DCM could not exist anymore, how is it DCI's problem?

[Rifuarian]

Even your own spin still shows that DCM failed to provide the competitive experience at the level some of the corps desired, so the left. If DCM could not exist anymore, how is it DCI's problem?

First, pleas don't think I have an agenda here. There's no spin. When it comes to drum corps history I try to be as objective as possible, and call things as I see them. This debate has come up many times, but the discussion is always influenced by the emotion held by those on both sides of the argument. I'm generally a supporter of DCI, but I don't believe it is some omnipresent moral entity whose actions have done nothing but protect and preserve the drum corps activity. Nor do I believe that it is some evil, conspiratorial organization hell-bent on eliminating all that is good and right in drum corps. It is a business which looks out for its own interests. Sometimes these have coincided with the interests of the activity as a whole, sometimes not.

Of course DCM's weaknesses were not DCI's problem. DCI saw a weakness, a bit of dissatisfaction, within DCM and exploited it successfully. That's what businesses do, I certainly don't fault DCI for acting like a business because that's what it is. Had DCM perhaps made better decisions it still might be around . . . then again, competing with the DCI juggernaut was probably a losing battle from the start.

My point is, if DCI were The Great Moral Protector of All Things Junior Drum Corps that some say it is, it would not have exploited DCM's weaknesses and would not have pulled the rug out from underneath the smaller corps which depended on that circuit. But it is a business, and acted as a business should act when confronted with an opportunity to improve its position.

[supersop]

Even your own spin still shows that DCM failed to provide the competitive experience at the level some of the corps desired, so the left. If DCM could not exist anymore, how is it DCI's problem?

It was about money ......................................... PERIOD.

Nothing to do with "competitive experience" you keep touting.

Every decision in the past 20 years has been motivated by money ... money for the top corps.

I don't understand how you can be so blind to the truth of this matter Mike. DCM was far more successful than DCE, so it might not make a whole lot of sense to you .... first and foremost, it gave over 40 corps (during my marching tenure) a full touring schedule for the first month of the summer, and all shows were within 100-200 miles of each other. It was well run, made economic sense for the corps and was overrun by DCI to further their own interests and line their pocketbooks. End of story. Whether you want to believe it or not .. it was, is and will always be the truth.

Edited August 18, 2010 by supersop

[Tony Flores]

I remember DCM had a lot of organizational issues toward the end of it's life. I remember reading or listening to an interview with Jeff Fiedler in late 02 or early 03 about how they got so clean and it had to do with the numerous cancelled shows during the DCM tour. I loved DCM, and I think that reviving regional touring and not having a 100% national touring model will help in the stability of existing units and may spark the revival or creation of new units.

IN the interim, I'd like DCI to go back to having OC in the 1st half of the week and finals on Tues or Weds and give the top5 from finals a chance at qfinals, just like what was done pre-2002.

I am no expert, these are just my ramblings, but OC is dying and I care about OC just as much as WC

[supersop]

Yes, DCI killed DCM. There was nothing shady about it. DCI convinced certain corps that it could bring them bigger audiences and more revenue, this corps accepted DCI's offer and proceeded with the dismantlement of DCM. We forget that circuits like DCI and DCM are businesses that are/were in competition with one another. DCI simply out-competed DCM and the other regional circuits. From a business standpoint, there's nothing wrong with what DCI did. Now it was a cold-hearted move that resulted in the deaths of several corps. You can dance around that fact all you want, but it won't go away. From the standpoint of the health of the activity as a whole, it was a disaster, but remember that DCI is not concerned with promoting interests of the activity as a whole, but only with promoting its own interests (and DCM and the other defunct circuits were little different).

I agree with most of what you said .. until you got to the end part. The problem is that DCI SHOULD be concerned with promoting the interests of the activity as a whole. From my perspective, DCI is the corps .... and by their own mission statement, are charged with the success of the activity as a whole. They seem to have forgotten that.

I believe DCM DID promote the interests of all corps in their region and fostered an atmosphere of growth and fair play for all. The shows weren't always as big, or didn't pay as much as the DCI schedule because of it ......... but looking back, the payoff was worth the lower paycheck. Just looking at travel expenses alone ... there was a cost/benefit to DCM that DCI can not touch. The big draw corps in DCM (PR, Cavies, Scouts, Bluecoats) took a position that DCM was wasting their time with smaller shows and not making them enough money (sans. Scott Stewart and the Scouts). The other DCI BoD members and "big draw corps" from other regions saw this as an opportunity to run DCM into the ground, take their best venues and eliminate the last standing regional circuit that was keeping them from their full summer/full national touring plans.

I wonder how many of those corps would change their mind had they the chance to go back and do it all over again..... knowing the harm they caused ......... seeing how the pains of the national touring model are now bleeding their budgets dry. The evidence of the effect is pretty clear when looking at the amount of Midwestern corps that folded within 1-5 years after DCM was disassembled. It's now further illustrated by the power grab position the G7 took in their initial proposal ... and that consists of 2 DCW corps, 2 DCE corps and 4 DCM corps historically (including Blue Stars should they choose to follow the WSODC model).

Cause .. and Effect

It's always about choices .. the good and the bad.

If DCI is to move forward and actually grow the activity ... they need to work together for ALL of the drum corps activity. This split and rift needs to end. The G7 is just the latest step in the plan for total domination of the activity .. and killing DCM/DCE/DCW was the first step toward achieving their ultimate goals.

[Rifuarian]

I agree with most of what you said .. until you got to the end part. The problem is that DCI SHOULD be concerned with promoting the interests of the activity as a whole. From my perspective, DCI is the corps .... and by their own mission statement, are charged with the success of the activity as a whole. They seem to have forgotten that.

Oh, I agree that DCI should promote the interests of the entire junior activity, especially now that it has won the monopoly that it actively sought for the past couple of decades. My contention is that DCI, as a business, has no obligation to do so. It was founded by a group of large, successful corps to promote their interests, and by and large it has stuck close to that purpose. But now that DCI is being told by a group of large, successful corps that it is no longer adequately promoting their interests it is perhaps time that DCI reconsider its purpose and start living up to some of the fluff contained in its mission statement.

Edited August 18, 2010 by Rifuarian

[GUARDLING]

Oh, I agree that DCI should promote the interests of the entire junior activity, especially now that it has won the monopoly that it actively sought for the past couple of decades. My contention is that DCI, as a business, has no obligation to do so. It was founded by a group of large, successful corps to promote their interests, and by and large it has stuck close to that purpose. nBut ow that DCI is being told by a group of large, successful corps that it is no longer adequately promoting their interests it is perhaps time that DCI reconsider its purpose and start living up to some of the fluff contained in its mission statement.

hmmmmmm interesting you may have something there ...especially your last line

[audiodb]

So you think the demolition of the regional circuits have had zero impact on corps survival?

You also believe that a full 2 month national tour was in the best interest of every corps and their bottom line?

You also feel that every rule change that has taken place since then has had nothing but a positive effect on drum corps as a whole?

This isn't Monday Morning Quarterback .. this is 13 years after the fact ........ and watching over 20 corps die since 2000. BTW, that's about 33% of the active corps that perished in the past 10 years.

As much as I share your sentiments, I have to question your statistics. We've lost a lot more than 20 corps over the past decade, actually....but how many were due to eight-week touring? No one outside of world-class does that. And how many world-class corps have folded over the past decade? Six. Apparently, the vast majority of attrition has taken place in the open-class ranks. World-class has actually grown over the past decade.

Hard to claim that eight-week touring is killing corps....especially when DCI does not require anyone to tour anywhere near that long.

[audiodb]

I'm generally a supporter of DCI, but I don't believe it is some omnipresent moral entity whose actions have done nothing but protect and preserve the drum corps activity. Nor do I believe that it is some evil, conspiratorial organization hell-bent on eliminating all that is good and right in drum corps.

A voice of reason. Thank you, and feel free to stop by and post more often!