What direction will BD take in 2011?

[WOOHOO]

From the unfortunate, unenlightened masses, I offer thanks to you for trying to help us.

LOL so sensitive!!!!

I did not say there was anything wrong with that type of entertainment because there isn't. I just don't see why everyone needs to be like that.

[bawker]

I do find it interesting that so many people on here want drum corps to be more distinct and unique, but at the same time say they should be more accessible, which to me implies become more homogenized. I don't think you can have both.

Not necessarily.

Accessibility comes in many forms: it could be the Madison Scouts playing "Rhapsody in Blue" and riffing on Depression-era stuff with the guard, but it also takes the form of quoting "Full Metal Jacket" and "Stripes" by the Cavaliers.

Both are distinct in their presentation, but both also provide a touchstone (or an "in") to the first-time viewer.

Since drum corps borrows almost totally from other art forms, I don't see including these recognizable bits as homogenization, rather as just some nods to where the show design comes from.

My only problem is when corps will try to take arrangements out to their rococo extreme in order to prove that it's an "original" work (when all it is is still a riff on someone elses stuff) or attempt to rationalize the show design as a higher art form than it really is by trying to portray something that's basically impossible to do in eleven minutes.

I'm almost positive that we could have 20 shows next year that could be both accessible and forward-reaching.

It's all in the approach, and whether you want to program with nebulous show concepts (see "dark into light", "modern life", "human experience") that bog down your musical/visual in faux layering that holds the viewer at an arms length to begin with (therefore preventing said "accessibility") or if you want to try something a little more challenging.

[WOOHOO]

Not necessarily.

Accessibility comes in many forms: it could be the Madison Scouts playing "Rhapsody in Blue" and riffing on Depression-era stuff with the guard, but it also takes the form of quoting "Full Metal Jacket" and "Stripes" by the Cavaliers.

Both are distinct in their presentation, but both also provide a touchstone (or an "in") to the first-time viewer.

Since drum corps borrows almost totally from other art forms, I don't see including these recognizable bits as homogenization, rather as just some nods to where the show design comes from.

My only problem is when corps will try to take arrangements out to their rococo extreme in order to prove that it's an "original" work (when all it is is still a riff on someone elses stuff) or attempt to rationalize the show design as a higher art form than it really is by trying to portray something that's basically impossible to do in eleven minutes.

I'm almost positive that we could have 20 shows next year that could be both accessible and forward-reaching.

It's all in the approach, and whether you want to program with nebulous show concepts (see "dark into light", "modern life", "human experience") that bog down your musical/visual in faux layering that holds the viewer at an arms length to begin with (therefore preventing said "accessibility") or if you want to try something a little more challenging.

I'm sure I've said this before, but I do get tired watching shows that have no real layers, that just keep compounding on the same issue over and over again (Mad World). I get it, you're crazy (or itchy, in some cases).

I just wish there was more fundamental emotional points portrayed in the activity in the show. That would be a real challenge.

[C4T]

I remember reading somewhere on here that a BD staff member, maybe it was ScoJo, said they wanted to try something completely different this year following 2009's win. If that's their conscious approach after a championship win, then I don't think we have to worry about a Through A Glass, Darkly 2: Even Darker in 2011 or any other year in the future for that matter.

Whether people are engaged or frustrated by BD's 2011 program, I will bet it will be for completely different reasons than 2010.

[bawker]

I just wish there was more fundamental emotional points portrayed in the activity in the show. That would be a real challenge.

No doubt. . .and it's why we're still looking at WGI and BOA and running in place a lot of the time as an activity.

What kinds of emotional crests/falls are you looking for from show design, and how do you think we could accurately portray it in our idiom? I'd be interested to know.

[WOOHOO]

No doubt. . .and it's why we're still looking at WGI and BOA and running in place a lot of the time as an activity.

What kinds of emotional crests/falls are you looking for from show design, and how do you think we could accurately portray it in our idiom? I'd be interested to know.

I guess the stuff that makes us human: life and death, love and despair, spiritual fulfillment, financial success, social enjoyment. It is a lot, and I would have to really think about it, but it could be done.

[bawker]

I guess the stuff that makes us human: life and death, love and despair, spiritual fulfillment, financial success, social enjoyment. It is a lot, and I would have to really think about it, but it could be done.

Yeah, those are tough. . .and I don't know that we could really do them justice. Cadets 2008 is a cloyingly awkward attempt, but, to really work on those on more than a superficial level, you'd have to bring in some top writing, editing and even acting talent.

[Plan9]

You don't see it as an issue that the majority of the fans just didn't get it? I think you are being very short-sighted. In order to grow the activity we need to get the "fans" (not just BD fans) excited about drum corps. I loved the show (BD), but I am in the minority. I was in the crowd in Indy and I saw the crowd. If you didn't notice it, you were not looking. It really bothered me when I saw a BD staffer trying to get the crowd on their feet. Should they of had to encourage them to react?

Engaging the crowd (Madison) is what will grow the activity. Isn't it possible that the people you call "haters" actually love the activity. I brought non-drum corps people to a show this summer and they commented that BD just lost them. BD did not engage the crowd. If drum corps does not make a concerted effort to engage the crowd, we will become an even smaller niche activity. Is this what we want?

You can call me a BD "hater", but it wouldn't be true. But what I am even more is a lover of drum corps.

Short-sighted?..quite the opposite! In order to grow the activity you need a larger audience, not just the old fans that want the "formula" presentations each year: frenetic/kaleidoscope drill, familiar music with "big" moments, company (extended) fronts, hot drum breaks, Blah, Blah, Blah...all under the guise of some new title that means nothing to the actual production! It's the same every frickin' year! Play the tape for crying out loud.

Then one corps leaves the "circle of sameness" and we refuse to recognize their efforts for fear others will follow. Then we bark at em' to chase em' back in. This is precisely what happened to SOI 93...precisely. BD is wise enough to understand that what they are doing will be loved and remembered far longer than the short-sighted same productions that will be lost in the circle.

The ugly truth is that it isn't very hard to get the fans out their seats, there's a formula and most of the directors know it...big deal! Sometimes it's a hit, sometimes it's a miss, but they all know it. GH plans on it (3 times a show), and if Mason and company plans to go that way (and it sounds like it)...ughhhh!

What won't get the fans out of their seats?.....hogging the podium....and it ain't going to happen for BD as long as BD keeps doing it! You want to see the crowd react to BD?...all they need to do is come in 5th place a couple times in row, do a formula show and then the crowd will love them again and urge them on like Madison, Cavies and BC. NOTE: I'm not slamming their shows, I liked them all this year, but tell me the difference between them?...anything?

I will also remind you that as long as finals are in Indiana and BD continues to win...the reaction at finals will be the same....period! Bring it to California and you will see an entirely different reaction, there....they are happy for BD to win and aren't afraid of something new!!

P.S. BTW, you sound as if staffers/homers jumping to their feet in an attempt to stimulate the crowd is something new. It's what they do.

Edited August 24, 2010 by Plan9

[fsubone]

Then one corps leaves the "circle of sameness" and we refuse to recognize their efforts for fear others will follow. Then we bark at em' to chase em' back in. This is precisely what happened to SOI 93...precisely. BD is wise enough to understand that what they are doing will be loved and remembered far longer than the short-sighted same productions that will be lost in the circle.

I will also remind you that as long as finals are in Indiana and BD continues to win...the reaction at finals will be the same....period! Bring it to California and you will see an entirely different reaction, there....they are happy for BD to win and aren't afraid of something new!!

P.S. BTW, you sound as if staffers/homers jumping to their feet in an attempt to stimulate the crowd is something new. It's what they do.

See, these are the two things I don't quite get in your post. You've spent the entire season trying to convince people that BD 2010 was another Star 93. The problem with that is, Star was a game-changer, when I really don't feel BD will ever be seen as that. Go watch the Finals video for both corps, and watch the crowd reaction. People loved Star at Finals, since it reached all of them. Now go look at BD's reaction. Still golf claps at Finals. There's a thin line between esoteric and just flat-out weird. I think BD crossed that line this year. When we look at the top 5 shows of all time, Star is #1, no BD show cracked that list, and I'm pretty darn sure we won't see this show jump onto that list, IMO.

And you've brought up regional bias all season, it's the same argument and excuse from you all the time. I really don't see any evidence for this. I live in California, I went to most of the shows out here this season, and I really didn't see any different reaction to BD than I saw on the tape in Indy. Or at any other stadium. And the ONE time that Finals was in California, I saw bigger crowd reactions for corps that weren't BD. Cadets did actually get a pretty big ovation, as did many other corps. So please, put away the regional bias shtick, because it just doesn't hold any relevance.

[chaddyt]

Short-sighted?..quite the opposite! In order to grow the activity you need a larger audience, not just the old fans that want the "formula" presentations each year: frenetic/kaleidoscope drill, familiar music with "big" moments, company (extended) fronts, hot drum breaks, Blah, Blah, Blah...all under the guise of some new title that means nothing to the actual production! It's the same every frickin' year! Play the tape for crying out loud.

Then one corps leaves the "circle of sameness" and we refuse to recognize their efforts for fear others will follow. Then we bark at em' to chase em' back in. This is precisely what happened to SOI 93...precisely. BD is wise enough to understand that what they are doing will be loved and remembered far longer than the short-sighted same productions that will be lost in the circle.

The ugly truth is that it isn't very hard to get the fans out their seats, there's a formula and most of the directors know it...big deal! Sometimes it's a hit, sometimes it's a miss, but they all know it. GH plans on it (3 times a show), and if Mason and company plans to go that way (and it sounds like it)...ughhhh!

What won't get the fans out of their seats?.....hogging the podium....and it ain't going to happen for BD as long as BD keeps doing it! You want to see the crowd react to BD?...all they need to do is come in 5th place a couple times in row, do a formula show and then the crowd will love them again and urge them on like Madison, Cavies and BC. NOTE: I'm not slamming their shows, I liked them all this year, but tell me the difference between them?...anything?

I will also remind you that as long as finals are in Indiana and BD continues to win...the reaction at finals will be the same....period! Bring it to California and you will see an entirely different reaction, there....they are happy for BD to win and aren't afraid of something new!!

P.S. BTW, you sound as if staffers/homers jumping to their feet in an attempt to stimulate the crowd is something new. It's what they do.

I agree with you on the bolded part. Just funny that when say, Hopkins tries/suggests/changes rules that he thinks will help accomplish this he gets slammed.

But when BD puts mirrors on the field and plays music they know will not be loved by people, they're being innovative and people just need to get with the program.

And what, by the way, was so unique and un-formulaic in BD's show this year?

ETA: Also... keep in mind that if you're going to grow an audience, you need to make sure the people who are currently filling the stands stay in the stands.

Edited August 24, 2010 by chaddyt