Lower level corps need horn players too

[MikeD]

uh really?

He was being sarcastic, as he explained in a later post.

[charlie1223]

I don't pretend to speak for YOU..... and you can't pretend to speak for ME. You expressed why YOU did Drum Corps. That's valid, because you took the time, made the sacrifices, paid the dues ( literally and figuratively ) and these were YOUR reasons.

But they were not MY reasons. And neither of us speak for anyone else as to why THEY did Drum Corps. I knew people whose principal reason to do Drum Corps ran the gamut from escaping from a bad household in the summer... to strengthening their musical abilities on a musical instrument.... to wanting to help their Corps kick the sheet out of a rival Corps..... to lose weight, tone muscles..... to develop self confidence..... to receive needed structure and discipline in their lives..... to becoming better members of their band they also marched with..... to learn skills that would help them in their future teaching career.... to 50 other reasons. I never attributed one principal reason as better than another. It was not my place. And frankly it's not yours either. My point was to make the case why competition is an integral component of the driving motivator for participation in DCI Corps. If your reasons are other than this, than that's fine too. I do " get it ". If you don't understand however, that what motivates you may not be what motivates others, then frankly it is you that doesn't " get it ".

What you were saying before was that increasing the competetiveness of lower-tier corps by forcing kids to march in them was somehow a good idea. And I said no because competition iteself wasn't a good enough motivator to make kids stay at a lower-tier corps. That was it.

I still disagree that competition is an "intergral component of the driving motivator for participation in DCI corps".

Because:

1. Like you said only a small number of corps win and yet there are a lot of corps that "lose". Those corps still have a lot of people. So the people who join those corps obviously aren't joining to "win". So competition is not an intergral compnent for their participation in DCI.

2. I have march a top 8 corps that has the possibility of winning and I know many friends from other top 8 corps. None of them have expressed winning or beating another corps as the primary motivation for marching a certain corps. Instead it was more about the excellence that the corps has achieved in the past and wanting to be a part of that excellence.

3. My own personal motivations for marching drum corps.

Based on my observations I can conclude that competition is NOT an intergral part of participation in DCI corps. I don't know the people you've talked to that say beating the Blue Devils, or beating the Cavaliers is there "primary" or "intergral" component of marching but I have not seen that. I atleast have my own evidence to back up my claim.

People may want to win once they are a part of a corps which is healthy and exciting. But, people (and I mean people that I have met through all my years of drum corps) don't join a corps to win.

(Unless you go to Blue Devils! :-P hahaha)

[MelloHorn13]

Who offers absolutely no quality instruction or experience.

Incorrect.

I marched drum corps for seven years, 6 in open class. of the 6 years in open class I auditioned and got offered contracted 4 top five drum corps. I never accepted the contracts because I never found a corps (with the exception of the one world class corps I did march) who proved themselve to provide the same quality instruction and experience as an Open Class Corps.

As a person who marched both open and world class, the difference is the approach to the activity. I truly feel most of the World Class corps primary focus on competition/placement and do whatever it'll take for the numeric assessment of your hard work. most Open Class corps place more emphasis on educational and moral standpoint. I'm not saying World Class doesn't, but they tend to spend ALOT of time during the summer on the field secluded, while some Open Class corps take advantage of many non-competitive gigs like parades, concerts, and sometimes community events. Building the youth of the community through music. Yes, I know it's almost impossible these days to keep a corps local, but I truly believe there should be more emphasis on the maturing of the youth and not using them as performers for your traveling circus.

[Stu]

... most Open Class corps place more emphasis on educational and moral standpoint ... take advantage of many non-competitive gigs like parades, concerts, and sometimes community events.

Many corps' do "not" march in gigs like parades, concerts, and community events because of moral altruism or educational aspects, but mainly perform at these functions for appearance money or in return for sizable donations.

[BRASSO]

.

As a person who marched both open and world class, the difference is the approach to the activity. I truly feel most of the World Class corps primary focus on competition/placement and do whatever it'll take for the numeric assessment of your hard work. most Open Class corps place more emphasis on educational and moral standpoint.

Yes. This has been my experience as well. Of course, another's experience has been different, as we can see from the comments from another poster just above above you ( Charlie1223 )

Edited November 23, 2010 by BRASSO

[BRASSO]

I wish that the Open class corps could make a general presentation at a WC audition weekend...at the START of the weekend. Maybe the closest Open class admin to a particular WC audition site could make a 30 minute presentation about Open class corps in general...and the absolute marvelous time they provide. Telling a person just cut that "plan B" is available when they have just been given bad news is not the best time, IMO.

Better yet, give every kid that is cut from a World Class Corps a 50% refund of their deposit money. That refunded money could then be utilized by the cut recruit to use to defray the cost of the 2nd Corps he tries out for. My guess, that alone would help the talent level of the lower tier Corps.... and ultimately make other Corps stronger and more competititive in the long run..... but then again, my hunch is that the G-8 would want no part of THAT plan and would fight such a proposal of a refund tooth and nail ( and not just for the lossed revenue of their annual camp money grab either )

Edited November 23, 2010 by BRASSO

[CrownStarr]

Incorrect.

I marched drum corps for seven years, 6 in open class. of the 6 years in open class I auditioned and got offered contracted 4 top five drum corps. I never accepted the contracts because I never found a corps (with the exception of the one world class corps I did march) who proved themselve to provide the same quality instruction and experience as an Open Class Corps.

As a person who marched both open and world class, the difference is the approach to the activity. I truly feel most of the World Class corps primary focus on competition/placement and do whatever it'll take for the numeric assessment of your hard work. most Open Class corps place more emphasis on educational and moral standpoint. I'm not saying World Class doesn't, but they tend to spend ALOT of time during the summer on the field secluded, while some Open Class corps take advantage of many non-competitive gigs like parades, concerts, and sometimes community events. Building the youth of the community through music. Yes, I know it's almost impossible these days to keep a corps local, but I truly believe there should be more emphasis on the maturing of the youth and not using them as performers for your traveling circus.

Really? That's a pretty unreasonable characterization of the world class corps. We're not being "used" in any way just because we don't take as many non-competitive gigs as open class corps might; we willingly sign up for drum corps with the understanding that we'll spend most (if not all) of our summer perfecting and performing our show. No one auditions at an upper-level corps and is surprised when they don't do parades every other day.

Besides, as to your earlier point about the difference in the open class "approach" vs the world class approach: experiences differ. I can tell you that not focusing on competitive placement has been a constant theme at Crown the last few years. Obviously, I can't speak for the corps I have no experience with, but then, no one can. Generalizations like that don't help anyone.

[corps8294]

Better yet, give every kid that is cut from a World Class Corps a 50% refund of their deposit money. ... but then again, my hunch is that the G-8 would want no part of THAT plan and would fight such a proposal of a refund tooth and nail ( and not just for the lossed revenue of their annual camp money grab either )

I don't think there would be any refund coming for a kid going to multiple camps and eventually getting cut. As stated, winter camps are excellent fundraisers for those organizations that attract high numbers of auditionees.

It's simple, smart, and slick marketing.

Edited November 23, 2010 by shortn'sour

[MikeD]

Better yet, give every kid that is cut from a World Class Corps a 50% refund of their deposit money. That refunded money could then be utilized by the cut recruit to use to defray the cost of the 2nd Corps he tries out for. My guess, that alone would help the talent level of the lower tier Corps.... and ultimately make other Corps stronger and more competititive in the long run..... but then again, my hunch is that the G-8 would want no part of THAT plan and would fight such a proposal of a refund tooth and nail ( and not just for the lossed revenue of their annual camp money grab either )

Are you referring to the cost of the camp weekend? If so...the money was spent for that weekend. No corps should be subsidizing the cost of another corps IMO; it's tough enough for all corps to survive today. It's up to the person auditioning to march where they want, if they pass the audition.

[bersurkman]

But no one has a book of competition notes and then decides to go to Blue Devils because in all probability they are most likely to win. Its not a math equation... it's drum corps!

This is where I was heading with this thread. Kids DO decide to go to BD just for that reason!! So why not give a few years to a lower tier corps to get that experience?

Also, there has been a great deal of discussion about winning. But what IS winning? When I marched I was proud to say that my corps came in 6th place, or that at one point in the season we were only 4 points away from the best DC in the world. That is "winning"!! We weren't going to get a ring for it, but we accomplished something that not many others did. We set a goal to improve our placement and we reached that goal. I don't even know what corps we scored higher or lower than, but I will always remember being 6th. It's a source of pride I carry to this day.