Cesario steps up as DCI's Artistic Director

[glory]

Reality check? When were corps free from this cookie cutter plague?

My drum corps experience goes back to the 70s. Back then, it was just one cookie cut obviously from the same cutter. Corps maybe favored different musical genres but still overlapped substantially (Maggione, anyone?). Sometimes when I listen to one of the "Echoes" CDs I have to strain to remember was that Devils, North Star, Madison, Bridgemen or even Garfield, Skyriders or Guardsmen playing that now obscure Latin jazz number. Visuals? Don't make me say it.

Maybe the 80s were a little more diverse. But that was only because some corps were catching up the to trend. The cookie cutter was still cutting. And still is.

So what? What would you rather have? Mediocrity? Stagnation? I'll take the 2010 cookie cutter over the sort of mediocrity and stagnation suggested in this thread.

HH

[glory]

One more thought. Rewarding anything other than perfomance is unfair. The members on the field should be judged how they execute, how they perform, the program. Entertainment, crowd-appeal and all such formulas give credit to the designers, not the performers.

BD was the best corps on the field in 2010. The show wasn't to my taste. That's irrelevant. Had the trophy gone to any other corps that night, it would have been a travesty because no other corps performed to the level of excellence that BD's members did.

Madison 2010 also wasn't to my taste. That's irrelevant too. Many in the crowd loved it. How possibly could we have placed Madison above Crusaders, Stars or SCV not because its brass, drums or guard was better, but solely because the program had more crowd appeal? Was more entertaining? What would we say to those young men and women at Blue Star? Your achievements on the field this summer were for naught because we made a poor judgement on the appeal of Houdini?

This is an attempt to manipulate results in defiance of a market that can function quite well by itself. BDs successful formula of the mid-90s worked until it didn't work. Ditto for the Cavies a decade ago. Bluecoats and Crown are figuring out their own formulas, some of which leverage elements of BD and other corps success. Blue Star is close behind. Cadets continue to experiment to varying degress of success.

There is no problem to be fixed here. When Crossmen perform as well as Blue Knights, they'll make finals. When Madison perform as well as BD, they'll deserve the ring. Not before.

HH

[Fran Haring]

Too bad they couldn't have had him on a skype call or something..where the audio is a lot more crisp and clearer.

I think a "Skype Judge" would be more qualified to determine that.

[Jeff Ream]

One more thought. Rewarding anything other than perfomance is unfair. The members on the field should be judged how they execute, how they perform, the program. Entertainment, crowd-appeal and all such formulas give credit to the designers, not the performers.

I'll disagree here for a reason. yes the designers design it, but the corps has to perform it. Imagine Madison with 23rd place corps talent....still burning babies thrown on the field? I think not.

BD was the best corps on the field in 2010. The show wasn't to my taste. That's irrelevant. Had the trophy gone to any other corps that night, it would have been a travesty because no other corps performed to the level of excellence that BD's members did.

Yet the designers were fully rewarded in the top boxes too. So, really, the same thing happens both ways.

Madison 2010 also wasn't to my taste. That's irrelevant too. Many in the crowd loved it. How possibly could we have placed Madison above Crusaders, Stars or SCV not because its brass, drums or guard was better, but solely because the program had more crowd appeal? Was more entertaining? What would we say to those young men and women at Blue Star? Your achievements on the field this summer were for naught because we made a poor judgement on the appeal of Houdini?

see above...design and performance. For all of it's baby throwing beauty, Madison had some flaws in both boxes on the sheets

This is an attempt to manipulate results in defiance of a market that can function quite well by itself. BDs successful formula of the mid-90s worked until it didn't work. Ditto for the Cavies a decade ago. Bluecoats and Crown are figuring out their own formulas, some of which leverage elements of BD and other corps success. Blue Star is close behind. Cadets continue to experiment to varying degress of success.

can the market function that well by itself? has it really been doing that well? I'd say no. attendance, fan dissatisfaction are high....coupled in with a bad economy and incresing prices...those arent things that makes a market function well on it's own

There is no problem to be fixed here. When Crossmen perform as well as Blue Knights, they'll make finals. When Madison perform as well as BD, they'll deserve the ring. Not before.

but will any ##### be in the seats until then? That's really the bottom line here. Just as it is with the changes DCA is enacting, and my biggest issue there is GE is now 50% of the sheets.

HH

[Lance]

One more thought. Rewarding anything other than perfomance is unfair. The members on the field should be judged how they execute, how they perform, the program. Entertainment, crowd-appeal and all such formulas give credit to the designers, not the performers.

BD was the best corps on the field in 2010. The show wasn't to my taste. That's irrelevant. Had the trophy gone to any other corps that night, it would have been a travesty because no other corps performed to the level of excellence that BD's members did.

Madison 2010 also wasn't to my taste. That's irrelevant too. Many in the crowd loved it. How possibly could we have placed Madison above Crusaders, Stars or SCV not because its brass, drums or guard was better, but solely because the program had more crowd appeal? Was more entertaining? What would we say to those young men and women at Blue Star? Your achievements on the field this summer were for naught because we made a poor judgement on the appeal of Houdini?

This is an attempt to manipulate results in defiance of a market that can function quite well by itself. BDs successful formula of the mid-90s worked until it didn't work. Ditto for the Cavies a decade ago. Bluecoats and Crown are figuring out their own formulas, some of which leverage elements of BD and other corps success. Blue Star is close behind. Cadets continue to experiment to varying degress of success.

There is no problem to be fixed here. When Crossmen perform as well as Blue Knights, they'll make finals. When Madison perform as well as BD, they'll deserve the ring. Not before.

HH

well put.

it's difficult sometimes, but knowing that most people are reasonable like you helps when reading all of the "blah blah blah cookie cutter", "blah blah esoteric blah blah", "blah hummable melody blah blah blah" stuff.

[DrillmanSop06]

> It's the judging community, not two administrators, who are responsible for the show designs of lower-placing corps.

Nope, it is the Design Team of each corps that is responsible for the design of each individual corps.

> ...and those directors enact what sort of control over the design teams of other corps, exactly?

None; but Hop/Gibbs are both directly responsible for this G# fiasco pushing the cirque envelope.

> And just to split hairs, I'd never in a million years compare BD shows to Cadets shows. Cadets shows are accessible to the point of being nauseating. A random individual can discern what they are about instantly, even if they dislike them. BD shows, not so much in since 2006. By the way, The Zone II is nearing its fifth anniversary - let it go.

Got it! Cadets shows are understandable and accessible but not the Devils. So, in 2012 the Cadet show can be about a little boy getting testy because Alice threw all of his toy soldiers in the outhouse so he goes to his dad who sits him down to tell him a story about the good ole days when he actually believed in something but the rabbit ate his homework therefore he will decide to buy a radio and place it on a table right smack dab in the middle of the 50 yard-line; and the 2012 Devils show can be about vanity with mirrors while the announcer yells out dance moves to people sitting in chairs doing some rather absurd things to their instruments. (Meanwhile) all the other corps' shall receive a big binding promise from Mr. C. and the judges that they will not hold these poor less privileged units to the same standard as the high and mighty Cadets or Devils and they can even play some umm-pah Sousa music a-la '70s style, dump the electronics, go back to the G rotors, become the crowd the favorite, and have a real chance to win the 2012 WC title! Or am I missing something here?

Nope. You covered it all.

And by "covered it all," I of course mean, "We're clearly done here."

[lindap]

snip sorry ;-)

but will any ##### be in the seats until then? That's really the bottom line here. Just as it is with the changes DCA is enacting, and my biggest issue there is GE is now 50% of the sheets.

At dinner last night we said let's get our bottoms on the ##### seats in 2012 with a side trip to Denver 2011. I was going to try to get to a DCA show, not sure now :-( Maybe a WGI regional? May I ask, whom are you an advocate for and if so promote one, the other or all?

[Jeff Ream]

At dinner last night we said let's get our bottoms on the ##### seats in 2012 with a side trip to Denver 2011. I was going to try to get to a DCA show, not sure now :-( Maybe a WGI regional? May I ask, whom are you an advocate for and if so promote one, the other or all?

I promote all. I like DCi, I like DCA, I like WGi and attended finals for all last year ( well not WGi guard....I have some sanity )

This year, as much as I'd love to hit all 3, Allentown will be my DCi finals as I really have no desire to go to shows under a roof for drum corps and the cost factor. DCA is a given and since I work with a school going to Dayton for the first time, I'll be there come April 13th.

( still cant get me there for the guards. nothing against em, I just cant get into watching them that much anymore)

[lindap]

I promote all. I like DCi, I like DCA, I like WGi and attended finals for all last year ( well not WGi guard....I have some sanity )

This year, as much as I'd love to hit all 3, Allentown will be my DCi finals as I really have no desire to go to shows under a roof for drum corps and the cost factor. DCA is a given and since I work with a school going to Dayton for the first time, I'll be there come April 13th.

( still cant get me there for the guards. nothing against em, I just cant get into watching them that much anymore)

How do we get people with varied interests come to the seats? Do we constantly critique or promote, excite and advertise!

[Mello Dude]

One more thought. Rewarding anything other than perfomance is unfair. The members on the field should be judged how they execute, how they perform, the program. Entertainment, crowd-appeal and all such formulas give credit to the designers, not the performers.

BD was the best corps on the field in 2010. The show wasn't to my taste. That's irrelevant. Had the trophy gone to any other corps that night, it would have been a travesty because no other corps performed to the level of excellence that BD's members did.

Madison 2010 also wasn't to my taste. That's irrelevant too. Many in the crowd loved it. How possibly could we have placed Madison above Crusaders, Stars or SCV not because its brass, drums or guard was better, but solely because the program had more crowd appeal? Was more entertaining? What would we say to those young men and women at Blue Star? Your achievements on the field this summer were for naught because we made a poor judgement on the appeal of Houdini?

This is an attempt to manipulate results in defiance of a market that can function quite well by itself. BDs successful formula of the mid-90s worked until it didn't work. Ditto for the Cavies a decade ago. Bluecoats and Crown are figuring out their own formulas, some of which leverage elements of BD and other corps success. Blue Star is close behind. Cadets continue to experiment to varying degress of success.

There is no problem to be fixed here. When Crossmen perform as well as Blue Knights, they'll make finals. When Madison perform as well as BD, they'll deserve the ring. Not before.

HH

I agree..to a fine point. The show that wins should actually have judgeable content, demand and exposure. When you have really none of these and still win, there is a problem. When a corps puts it on the line (not standing still or doing scatter drill) but actual judgeable content in the arena we call drum corps, they should be getting credit where credit is due..and not rewarding something that isn't there. Let's face it, standing still, playing..is so...70's..save the fact in the 70's you would feel that music hit you.

Edited December 18, 2010 by Mello Dude