corpsband Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 Okay. So let's start here. And anyone can play. Use the new rule to recast the intent of the effect sheets. Tell me how that exercise would impact last year's programs/results. You don't have to quantify anything. Just tell me who succeeded at "entertainment" and who failed. And tell me (if you like) how that result might have changed the rankings in your opinion. HH I think the intent of this sheet is to influence the design process more than anything. Changing the rules at finals and judging a show designed for different criteria would make little sense. Quite frankly I have no idea how things would turn out. Radically different results? Probably not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IntheMood Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 This would probably never work (visionaries like myself can only dream), but you could do the applause-o-meter award, and the corps that wins gets to do the retreat AND they get a monetary reward. Yeah...now we're talkin'. Cold hard cash might just be the one thing that motivates more than sucking up to the judges. VK! Maybe Mr. and Mrs. Cook could sponsor this award Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 I understand that. And I agree more entertaining shows are a good thing. But what of my hypothetical? (It's now a hypothetical so as to take the prior calculation out of the discussion.) Cavies need a 1.2 spread in entertainment to pass BD last year. But the judges only award Cavies 1 point differential in the entertainment caption. So BD is the champion. Where does that leave drum corps? We'd have Cavies, the fan favorite and the judges top pick in entertainment, in second. BD gets the ring. It would be worse than 2010. More discredit on the legitimate champion. More griping than ever. And all because we separate entertainment from general effect. Why must we? HH One could have the same gripe about any caption on the sheets. BD got 4th in percussion, and they won??? What's that all about? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mello Dude Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 (edited) One could have the same gripe about any caption on the sheets. BD got 4th in percussion, and they won??? What's that all about? Precisely. And if all top 12 were more "entertaining"..everyone is happy (well save for small few that think they have been snubbed). Edited January 14, 2011 by Mello Dude 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluecoats88 Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 I appreciate his (and your) effort, but the math is bogus in the worst and revisionist in the least, basing the entertainment caption on summations of comments perceived throughout the season. Hardly even a speculation. And certainly can't be used as the basis of contention or point of view, IMO. Well the Math as you put it for the two existing GE captions is a straight percentage reduction from the actual caption score to reduce it to the new value of that caption based on the proposal. The only thing that is bogus is the awarding of the Entertainment Caption scores, which I only did to show a possible outcome and since people are saying that this scoring system would favor Madison's 2010 show and not BDs I made the scores in that caption try to reflect that perception. You can take the numbers and change the entertainment caption to whatever numbers you feel are appropriate to get your results, but the other captions are acurate especially since the visual and music scores did not change at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bawker Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 I think the intent of this sheet is to influence the design process more than anything. . . .and that would be pretty cool. More thought towards entertainment = more overall satisfaction with the product for me, which equals more of my dollars going back into corps souvies, DCI ticket sales and so on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C4T Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 I skipped a few pages of posts so I apologize for repeating any ideas that have already been put out there or discussed... It seems to me that this is basically just another judge added to "smooth out" the GE scores. This is already taken care of by the double GE panel. The last part of the proposal mentions that the judging panel would instead be two GE judges (instead of 4) and the one Entertainment judge. This might save money for the major shows, but wouldn't it cost more for other shows that would otherwise only have the two GE judges? (I may be mistaken if more than just the major shows have the double GE panel currently) If anything needs to be done as far as "entertainment" factored in to judging, just emphasize it more on the existing sheets. If entertainment is in such short supply, I think the corps themselves would hopefully notice simply from the lack of merchandise being bought by fans. Another thing is that judging "entertainment factor" can be just as designer-reward-centric as the current system... An issue I think many might perceive as being alleviated by this proposal. A corps can't be "entertaining" if they don't have an "entertaining" show to perform no matter how well they perform it. Yes, it would be great of some corps didn't put out terrible messes of shows some years, but will adding this caption really keep that from happening? I don't think so. In all, I don't think the addition of this caption would impact the activity in any measurable way, and therefore should not be implemented. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glory Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 One could have the same gripe about any caption on the sheets. BD got 4th in percussion, and they won??? What's that all about? You're right. So why add yet another category, one so difficult to define and rate it's sure to provoke argument and ill-feeling? HH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C4T Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 Also, I think how some would approach the interpretation of this caption, it might was well just be called "The Real Winner Caption" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glory Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 I think the intent of this sheet is to influence the design process more than anything. Changing the rules at finals and judging a show designed for different criteria would make little sense. Quite frankly I have no idea how things would turn out. Radically different results? Probably not. No offense, but it seems as if you're being a little coy here in not answering my question about how you would score entertainment in last year's shows. Surely you're not expecting wholesale design changes the year this rule takes effect (if it takes effect). If history tells us anything, change will come slowly. A corps or two might try something "radical" as Boston and Crown did in 2004. But most will be cautious in implementation. So pretend last year was the first year this rule went into effect and that last year's programs reflected designer understanding of the implication of the rule change. How would y'all allocate your entertainment points? Who gets a lot of credit? Who doesn't? HH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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