The most overrated shows of the last decade

[Plan9]

Definitely over-hyping my post.

HH

This might be the most comprehensive and well reasoned analysis of 08 that I have ever read. Well done.

There.....toggled back a bit!

[Plan9]

Everyone loved PR 08 because it connected viscerally with the audience in a way that very few shows do anymore. Say what you want, people wanted them to win, because they enjoyed them the most. Cheering for the boring but almost perfectly executed show gets really old after a while, and in the end most people would rather see kickassedness rewarded over technical excellence that is void of connection to the audience.

This is always the way it goes. You know, it is possible to compliment one corps without trashing the other. And (per our discussion) it is also possible for some people to have wanted PR to win and others to have just wanted BD to lose.....how to measure it, I haven't a clue. Both shows were interesting, exciting, well executed and remarkable in many ways.

[BozzlyB]

This is always the way it goes. You know, it is possible to compliment one corps without trashing the other. And (per our discussion) it is also possible for some people to have wanted PR to win and others to have just wanted BD to lose.....how to measure it, I haven't a clue. Both shows were interesting, exciting, well executed and remarkable in many ways.

People don't seem to have a problem labeling Glassmen as the most boring corps of all time "Glassmen redefining boring again this year" etc... but throw that label at BD is unacceptable? Face it, the VAST majority of drum corps fans did not resonate with BD's show last year. The fact that it was not considered a fan friendly show was probably the most widely agreed upon thought in drum corps last year except for BD homers and a few others. It isn't an insult to BD, it's a fair assessment of their product, and quite frankly IMO has been their modus operandi for several years now. Boring, but brilliantly executed.

[corpsband]

The last two paragraphs are your opinion, and I can understand where you're coming from there. The rest of your post is nonsense. Phantom Regiment 08 is so immensely popular because of the emotional connection the corps made with the audience. This connection was most intense towards the end of the season, but they received intense reactions for most of the summer. Despite its technical weaknesses it was a stunningly effective show, which is why fans (and maybe judges) have elevated to such an exaggerated height.

With a few exceptions the tiresome ABBD bogeyman had little to do with it. Few people who knew anything about DCI really expected Phantom to win on finals night. They cheered the show because they liked it. Hard to believe, but true. And then awards came and it was revealed that the audience favorite had done the impossible and knocked the 1st place corps from semis. Would have been the same reaction no matter who had been in that 1st place spot the night before, be it BD, Cavies, Cadets, etc.

I can't add more - that pretty much sums up my feelings on this as well.

I can add just a little more.

I think ABBD -- or at least ABBDCC -- did have something to do with it. I agree that it's not as large a factor as some would have you believe. But it's not entirely imaginary.

I also concur with observations that the reincarnation of this thread is strangely civilized.

[audiodb]

This is closer to my memory of 08. Phantom improved the show into August, and the crowd responded. Doesn't mean this show isn't over-hyped; it is.

Since "overhype" depends on whose hype you listen to, that could very well be the case. I only posted to point out that fan support for the '08 PR show came prior to them becoming the primary title challenger.

Similarly, my view is the anyone-but-BD theory might also be over-hyped a bit in regard to 2008. While ABBD surely was on the minds of many, the more important intangible was to crown a new champion as in anyone but BD, Cavies or Cadets (ABBDCorC).

You are aware of what happened in 1996, right?

Phantom was a convenience. BD was a symbol of three corps's dominance.

In 08, BD was literally walking the new-age tightrope while Phantom reached back almost two decades for inspiration. Never mind that Phantom's show wasn't properly traditional; it felt traditional in its story of oppression and rebellion, murder and revenge.

So never mind that it wasn't traditional....it was to you? I'm sorry, but I do not see this distinction. For that matter, BD's '08 show wasn't the opposite extreme that you suggest....their own offerings in other years have been more outside-the-box.

[Rifuarian]

I can add just a little more.

I think ABBD -- or at least ABBDCC -- did have something to do with it. I agree that it's not as large a factor as some would have you believe. But it's not entirely imaginary.

I also concur with observations that the reincarnation of this thread is strangely civilized.

You're right. I should revise my statement a little bit. The reaction Phantom received to its performance -- probably the largest, most passionate, and most spontaneous reaction of the past decade at least -- was all about the show. Another show would not have gotten that reaction, regardless of how many audience members were devoted phans or how close Phantom was to winning.

The reaction during the score announcement was without a doubt more complicated. That the audience was in love with Phantom's show was important. The stunning revelation that the semifinals champion lost is what brought me to my feet (totally instinctively) played a role too. A perennial favorite getting its own championship was important. Relief that the Cavies-Cadets-BD stranglehold on the championship had been temporarily broken was, without a doubt, significant. And there were certainly a few souls who wanted someone, anyone, to beat BD. But it's way, way, down the list.

No, there's no way to measure what was the most important factor in causing the audience reaction. But that doesn't mean you can spout any crackpot theory about DCI audiences that comes into your head about ABBD or regional favoritism after a measly three years observing DCI and not have your BS called out. Many factors go into who cheers for what corps, how intensely, and for how long . . . but the most important factor by far is the shows.

[glory]

Since "overhype" depends on whose hype you listen to, that could very well be the case. I only posted to point out that fan support for the '08 PR show came prior to them becoming the primary title challenger.

You are aware of what happened in 1996, right?

So never mind that it wasn't traditional....it was to you? I'm sorry, but I do not see this distinction. For that matter, BD's '08 show wasn't the opposite extreme that you suggest....their own offerings in other years have been more outside-the-box.

I was agreeing with you. Is that disagreeable?

HH

[rkfdPRphan]

This is always the way it goes. You know, it is possible to compliment one corps without trashing the other. And (per our discussion) it is also possible for some people to have wanted PR to win and others to have just wanted BD to lose.....how to measure it, I haven't a clue. Both shows were interesting, exciting, well executed and remarkable in many ways.

Were you THERE at the stadium in Bloomington, Indiana, in August of 2008?

IF you were there, did you LISTEN to the crowd's vocal response of 'I....am Sparticus!' that final show?

Is that, to you, the response of a crowd that is only against BD? They responded because they were actually thinking 'I hate the BD corps and this is a way to show it'? And not really into a show they enjoyed, no matter who was performing it?

Often shows are really popular when the corps invites the audience to participate.

PR did.

A lot of corps do that and the crowd loves to participate in a show!

How about SCV?

When the crowd responds to part of their show, is it also an 'anti BD' response?

As for 'dirt'.

Most every show, and every corps has some.

'Dirt' does not take score points away....nor does a dropped rifle or saber.

DCI quit deducting points several years ago, as I recall.

Now there are just points given for achieving certain specific skill sets.

In all my decades of watching, listening and attending drum corps shows there has been very few, if any shows, that have inspired an audience into such a response. Call it all the 'over hype' you want, the audience felt it.....it wasn't hype it was success.

[glory]

...No, there's no way to measure what was the most important factor in causing the audience reaction. But that doesn't mean you can spout any crackpot theory about DCI audiences that comes into your head about ABBD or regional favoritism after a measly three years observing DCI and not have your BS called out. Many factors go into who cheers for what corps, how intensely, and for how long . . . but the most important factor by far is the shows.

But aren't you contradicting yourself here? Particularly in a discussion about over-hype?

Agreed that the most important factor is the show. I think what we're discussing though is how non-show factors can impact our perception of that show. For Phantom 2008, our hopes and wishes make a challenger into a champion. Or in the case of Madison 2010, pent-up frustration with recent programming choices makes objects in the rear-view mirror appear closer than they really are.

Admittedly, these intangibles can only carry you so far. As you said, you still have to have a good show from which to leverage these other factors. The issue, however, is the gap - the gap between reality and perception.

HH

[general_tsos_chicken2]

I just want to point out that I said vanguard 09 on my list, but I meant 07? (eureka).

I thought 09 was fantastic